Good deal or not for Hunter 212

Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
After some heavy negotiating, I got the guy down to $2500. Now is the time to make the big decision. Do I Buy It????

There are some people who say to walk away from the boat with out giving an explanation. I appreciate and respect everyones advice, but I really need the explanation in order to make an informative decision. Yes the needs to be fixed, but on Long Island there are not a lot of sailboats in the market that are less then 30 years old, so every boat is going to need some sort of repair.

OK I'll bite, and try and make this as fact-based as possible.

In the early 2000's Hunter bought a technology called Advanced Composite Process (ACP), along with the designs for some small daysailors from a small East-coast company. This APC process used a Luran-S thermoplastic based skin molded to a foam core and a thin fiberglass inner hull. The material was very clever, and was marketed as a tough, lightweight way to build an unsinkable daysailer. And all of that was true.

What was also sadly true; blamed on a change in Luran formulation that was not communicated to Hunter, many of the boats started to exhibit large cracks in the outer skin, unrelated to an impact. Often after while stored, and often in cold weather.

Sadly Hunter was never able to determine WHAT boats in the APC fleet (170, 216, 212, etc) would potentially be effected. That fact alone is troubling for several reasons. But the possible number of hulls was in the 1000s, and might have killed the company. So instead of a full-scale corrective effort, they would minimize financial exposure and swap out hulls if someone made enough noise. Or a discount on a new fiberglass boat. Crazy Dave will know more details. Some original owners were made close to whole.

The problem really got worse for the growing number of 2nd hand owners. Which most if not all are in the possession of now. Never an actual Hunter customer, Hunter had/has nothing for these owners, and many bought the boats not knowing of the potential program. Often a boat is fine, or fine for years. Then the cracks start to appear. Dave might know of one, but I've never seem one that started to crack that didn't develop more. Its a chronic problem, and some cracks end up being so structural that it is impossible to effect a safe repair.

What percentage of boats is effected? Impossible to know. But THAT one certainly is. Why buy THAT one? The bigger and harder question is if you should buy any APC boat at all. The cracking issue effects re-sale value on all the APC boats. It is possible that ALL of them might crack. Unlike fiberglass, which was studied for year by the US military before used in a pleasure craft, there was no way for anyone to do long term testing of the effects of time/age of APC.

Its sad. I personally really like the 216, and almost bought one awhile back.
 
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Zed

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Aug 19, 2015
96
West Wight Potter 19 Bar Harbor
Regardless of the issues that you already heard, you will have to spend another $2-3K to make it work for you.

All the lines will have to be replaced. You will need a motor, that will run you $1k-2K for at least a 5HP. You will need back-ups for all kinds of things. You will need to pay for a slip or a mooring, because after awhile you will get tired of trailering it every time you want to sail. If you buy a mooring for example, you will expect to pay another $1000 for that. And then you will probably need a dinghy, and anchor or two. You will need clothing you don't have now---you will be totally amazed in the end what you need.

And this doesn't include the knowledge base that no one tells you like how you will need to find ethanol free gas to run in the outboard, or it will die in the middle of nowhere, or right in front of a Supertanker that takes 5 miles to stop, or much nicer, refuses to start at all.

You may not have a vehicle that can tow it and get it in and up out of a ramp, so you will want an SUV or truck with at least AWD. 80% of the time you will not need AWD, but 20% of time you will be so glad you had it.

Bottom line here is that any used boat, no matter how wonderful is going to cost a lot more than you think. Been there, still doing it. If you enjoy it, and you have the money, then it will be fun.

And then there is sailing itself... if you are a control freak, then you will need to do something with that, because no matter how much you prepare for, you can guarantee something will happen that you did not prepare for and didn't even think you needed to prepare for.
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
I realize that this is a pretty old thread, but for the sake of anyone else that considers buying a 212, I thought that I would add a little first hand info.

Yes, the little plastic boat does crack around the windows. Yes, big temperature changes do seem to be what makes this happen. The cracks on my boat remain small. I am in South Florida. My boat doesn't see freezing weather.

I had a hard time finding actual ratings for this boat. Because so few were built, there just isn't that much support for them. The best I can figure from what I have read, the max HP rating is 4HP. I have a 3.5HP 4 stroke on mine. With a 3 knot head current & 15 knot head wind, I can make 3 knots forward speed over ground. A 4HP motor is 20# heavier, which makes it harder to stow down below for long hauls. I have seen pictures of 30# electric trolling motors on them. That is probably enough for small lake use. Mine is in the ocean.

The boat points well. It doesn't heal as much as I expected. It doesn't develop much weather helm until the breeze gets over 10 knots. I can't explain why that is, but that is what I observed.

The boat, loaded, on a trailer weights about 2,500#. You don't need a mack truck to pull it. I don't have 4 wheel drive & I don't think that I need it. I tow it with a 2wd Dodge Dakota. I have no problems towing it.

The open transom is kind of nice. It makes it easy to get back into the boat after a swim. It makes it easy to back up to a sand bar & just walk on/off the boat. If you are worried about stuff sliding out the back of the boat, install some removable netting. It's not that hard to do. I don't feel the need to have the netting. The boat is pretty stable & I don't take it out in 10' seas.

It's a cute little day sailer. It's OK for a weekend camp out. It's good for getting into skinny water in places like the keys. It takes impacts real well. It's not so tough up against sharp surfaces like oyster beds & barnacles. It has very good inherent buoyancy. If anyone ever actually manages to sink one of these things, it will be a noteworthy accomplishment. It's an easy boat for 2 people to sail. Single handing the boat in stock configuration is a bit of a chore.

My biggest complaint is the flimsy rudder mount. Mine is now remounted with rivet nuts, where the screws pulled out of the plastic. If the rivet nuts fail, I am going to install an oversized backing plate. My secondary complaint, is that the bow cleat & associated hardware is a bit flimsy. It's not really set up to ride out a storm on the hook. I'm also not a big fan of the hatch design, but it's not a deal breaker.

The deck stepped mast is really a 2-man job to put up & take down, even with a gin pole. Also, the mast support that comes with the original trailer is too far forward to properly handle the balance point of the mast. I made a cross stick support that rests on the stern cleats & supports the mast above the rudder mount. This makes the mast much easier to handle & also gives the option of leaving the mast down while you motor down the ICW without waiting for all the draw bridges to open.
 
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Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
That boat is designed to sail faster flatter, so less heel by use of the sail control will help. Not sure if you have roller furling but would like to see a photo of the cross stick support if you do not mind. You are correct about he windows with cracks. Not all boats had them. Easy to repair the hulls so when a crack first develops, drill a 1/8 inch hole at each end to stop the spread. As for the 212 you can get to the back to the transom and your assessment of the outboard motor bracket I would tend to agree but max hp or horsepower is 4. I would have a large plate of sorts or even treated lumber to distribute the load as you are dealing with construction foam of course with emersed fiberglass into plexsus as a covering with the white ACP cover

As for the windows, like I said not all boats had cracked windows. In heat and cold, the windows I think tend to contract and expand along with the ACP, where the two meet, do not let that happen using dow 795 as a barrier. that is the key
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
Not sure if you have roller furling but would like to see a photo of the cross stick support if you do not mind....
...As for the windows, like I said not all boats had cracked windows. In heat and cold, the windows I think tend to contract and expand along with the ACP, where the two meet, do not let that happen using dow 795 as a barrier. that is the key
No roller furling on mine.

The sticks are 1-1/4" Sch40 PVC pipe. Each is 6-1/2' long. I drilled holes, probably about 10" from the tops, & ran 1/4" line through those holes, then lashed the sticks together at the point where the holes are, which becomes the cradle where the mast sits. The line then goes forward to a block & a jam cleat. That way, I can raise & lower the height of the sticks by pulling in or letting out the line. In the attached picture, the mast is resting on the trailer support & the cross sticks are just snugged up under the mast. The sticks hold the mast on their own with no problem while underway. I mounted the sticks to the stern cleats by drilling holes in the pipes that I then stick the aft end of the cleats through. A slot on the front of the PVC gives clearance on the front of the cleat. I secure the PVC to the cleats by wrapping some more of the 1/4" line around the cleat after the stick is in position & then put a couple of half hitches on top.

I'm interested in learning more about Dow 795. I plan to replace the windows soon & I have not yet found a mounting system that I like. I agree that the different expansion/contraction rates of the dark plexiglass windows & white ACP hull probably are a root cause reason for the cracks. A window mounting system with some flex in it would probably be a good thing.

Regards,
Jim
 

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Jul 11, 2017
9
Hunter 212 Belmar, NJ
Jim, thanks for the interesting posts and pictures of your mast support system. A friend and I bought a Hunter 212 earlier this summer and have faced some of the same issues you have, so maybe I can offer some advice.

Both windows were very loose and were letting in a lot of water each time it rained, so we removed them, scraped off the old adhesive, and reinstalled with Dow 795. Be careful and take your time getting the old windows off - they are taped on very strongly, especially in the rear 1/3 of the window, and will crack if you're not careful. Once they are off, I suspect you will see that most of the cracks in the Luran surface originate under the windows, so this is a great time to secure everything with epoxy and countersunk 1/2" wood screws which will be hidden when the windows are reinstalled. We then reapplied some strong outdoor double-sided tape to hold the windows in place before caulking around the outside with Dow 795. Although it cleans up with alcohol when wet, I'd strongly advise you to mask off both the window and the boat with masking tape on both sides of the Dow 795 bead. Then just apply the 795 liberally (we used 1 and 1/2 tubes for two windows) , bed it down with a wet thumb, and pull off the masking tape all around the window before it dries too much. A little Devcon adhesive in the remaining visible cracks, then some 2-part Bondo putty and white spray paint and it looks like new again.

Even after the windows were sealed, we were still getting a lot of water leaking into the boat during rainstorms. We removed and re-sealed the stanchions and u-bolts in the top of the cabin with 5200, which helped a lot, but we still had some "mystery" leaking. We finally determined that water was collecting in the rub rail that runs around the boat and covers the seam between the top and bottom "halves" of the boat, so we used white silicone to seal around the entire top of the rub rail. It's now 99% dry, and what little water comes in quickly evaporates through a ventilation grill we installed in the top section of the companionway door.

To support the mast when trailering, we built a simple wooden bracket that is braced against the inboard side of the rudder support and lashed to both stern cleats. We like to leave the motor on for trailering, tilted up, and we use a strap from the lower part of the motor to the wooden bracket to carry some of the weight and avoid stressing the motor mount points on bumpy roads. I'll take a picture if anyone is interested in that.

We replaced the 9.9 hp motor that was installed by the previous owner with a lighter 5 hp Honda, but we still strengthened the motor mount: replaced the old HDPE plastic mount with a stiffer one made of Corian; replaced the 3/16" Phillips screws that attach the L-shaped metal bracket to the hull with 1/4" lag screws; drilled holes into the metal pipe where the 2 set screws go and replaced them with longer screws that actually seat into the holes in the pipe; and finally, used 3M 5200 to waterproof and strengthen all connections between the motor mount and the hull.

We love the boat and think it's a great value for a trailerable day-sailer, and have had a lot of compliments from other boat owners. No regrets about the purchase!

Hope this helps,
Mike
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
Mike, that does help. Thank you for all that good information. I too have a little mystery water getting into the cabin & I did not think to check the deck/hull joint under the rub rail.



I’m still using the stock motor mount. I do not leave the motor attached for trailering because I don’t trust it on a bumpy road. The stock mount works well with a 3.5hp. It might be under gunned for larger motors. A previous owner replaced the set screw in the forward support tube with a through bolt, which leaves some slop due to the clearance between the tube & the socket. I plan to press fit a solid plug in the tube & tap it. That should make for a snug connection. At this time, I have a hi/low bracket bolted to the stock motor mount. This is being done so that I can use the short shaft motor from my roll up RHIB tender to power the sailboat & not carry a second motor. I will probably remove the hi/lo & go back to a long shaft when I stop going to places where I need a tender.



I’d love to see some pictures of the changes that you made.



I have a few questions on the window work. First, what size tubes of 795 did you use 1-1/2 of? Second, does the 795 provide a firm & solid joint or a flexible one? Third, how long ago did you do the window work & how is it holding up?



My windows are not loose, but they are crazed pretty badly & they did leak until I goobered them up with clear RTV as a stop gap measure. My original thought was to use 5200 to mount the new windows, but two things are stopping me from doing that. First, the manufacturer of 5200 specifically recommends against using it to mount windows unless the window is also mechanically secured (which these are not) & second, I don’t think that 5200 has enough flex to fend off the potential expansion issue. I’m still pondering my options.
 
Jul 11, 2017
9
Hunter 212 Belmar, NJ
We just used 10 ounce tubes of Dow 795 that fit in a standard caulking gun - they're available on Amazon and elsewhere but make sure you order the black color to match the windows. When dry it feels just like cured silicone caulk - solid but with some flexibility. It's much more flexible than cured 5200 and it has to fill some substantial gaps, up to 1/4", between the window and the hull. It was a little firmer than normal silicone caulk, didn't "slump" on the vertical joints, and was the ideal product for this application - I would not use anything else.

That's good that your motor mount has already been stiffened. We didn't tap the tube but just made sure that the screws fit snugly and used 5200 to firm things up. I'll try to post some pictures soon to make that more clear.

One thing to watch on your motor mount is to make sure that the white plastic piece isn't cracked too deeply - it's just soft HDPE, which probably absorbs some of the vibration from the motor, but ours had cracks almost halfway through it as you can see in the attached photo. The only reinforcement for the top 2/3 of the mount is the single long screw running through it from the top. Our new Corian mount is much stiffer but the noise and vibration from the motor hasn't been a problem.

IMG_6267.jpg
 
Jul 11, 2017
9
Hunter 212 Belmar, NJ
Hi Jim, here are the pictures I promised to send of the modifications to strengthen the motor mount, and the mast/motor support for trailering. Hope they are useful!
IMG_6779.JPG IMG_6780.JPG IMG_6781.JPG IMG_6782.JPG IMG_6799.JPG IMG_6802.JPG
 
Jun 21, 2010
3
MacGregor 26D HarborTown Allatoona
I bought a Hunter 212 at the beginning of summer as a "project" boat. I have a Hunter 27-2 as well as some other boats I have built over the years but wanted something I could trailer and my wife would be comfortable on besides, I couldn't pass up the $500 price tag especially given the nice trailer it was sitting on. The boat itself was a hot mess due to a lot of neglect by the previous owner (previous to the seller) that went to the extent of the dock lines (and cable lock of the marina) wearing through and the boat wandering around Lake Lanier on its own.

I have worked on the boat all summer repairing the plethora of cracks using Plexus (and fiberglass cloth in the bigger cracks). The windows practically fell off the boat due to the expanding plastic so I took those off and re-affixed them adding vent holes under the part of the window not corresponding to a interior opening. I had to re-engineer the motor mount as it was missing from my boat. Besides, wanted the mount lower so I could use my 33# twin cylinder 4hp Evinrude lightwin. Didn't want the vibrations associated with a single cylinder. I launched her twice, the first time without mast under motor only and the second time with the brand new (ouch) mainsail rigged but no wind. I just got a new jib for a Compact 19 (same dimensions) so am looking forward to launching her again this coming weekend with a bit more wind in the forecast. I find the cockpit capacious but I also find the cabin very roomy for a 21' boat and perfect for two people assuming you don't bring too much crap. Something I have learned from backpacking as well as doing some adventure races (Everglades Challenge) in as small as an 8' boat.

I am very curious to see how she performs. The hull shape is very similar to the Holder 20 I used to own and race. I got a jib with a 7'7" foot trading downwind performance for upwind pointing capability given how close the jib fair leads are to the center line of the boat. In my experiences racing the Holder, MacGregor 26 class, and my Hunter 27-2 I find pointing closer to the wind gains you a lot more time on the windward legs than you ever gain by going faster downwind. I plan on racing this boat with my club weekend after next. Here is a link to my google album for the rebuild project: https://goo.gl/photos/TfgCaaASwQxEXX3m9 . Here are some teaser pictures.
 
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Jun 21, 2010
3
MacGregor 26D HarborTown Allatoona
I will be launching this boat single handed from time to time and do realize the issues created by the mast balance point being aft of the mast support. Instead of making a new support, I was thinking about simply clipping a line from the foot of the mast to the mast step so that I can slide the mast back and help the spreaders over the support without the whole thing flipping on me. Then I can go forward, pull down the foot of the mast and unclip the line. Do you see any problems with this solution?

The hatch is rather ungainly so I plan on making a replacement one out of stiff slats sewn into sunbrella cloth that could be rolled forward and out of the way. Snaps around the opening would hold it in place. Would then only use the original hatch for long-distance trailering and leave it in the car otherwise. Will post pictures once I get it sewed up.
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
I was unaware of this thread and Jackdaw hit this on the nailhead back in 2015. Generally if there are no cracks at this time in the ACP outer skin, you have one of the good boats. I think this thread is very informative and thank all the participants for their discussion on repairs. I did have two new boats replaced by Hunter. The 15 18 and other are fiberglass.
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
Here is a link to my google album for the rebuild project: https://goo.gl/photos/TfgCaaASwQxEXX3m9 .

Wow,
Nice repair work! & great pictures.

I was going to ask how the short shaft motor worked out for you, then I saw the Hi/low mount in later pictures. I think that was a good move.

I have two questions for you & a request. First, where did you get your replacement windows from? Second, where did you get the anti-skid that you put on the floor of the cockpit?

The request is this - would you please post a few close up pictures of your rudder head? Mine is non-standard & could use some improvement. If I had pictures for reference, it would be a big help.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Jun 24, 2021
5
Catalina 25 Cocoa Beach
I purchased a Hunter 212 and was looking to replace the sails. I was thinking of adding a asymmetrical spinnaker to the boat. My biggest question would this mast and rigging hold up? Has anyone done this or seen this being done? If so, would you have any pictures to assist with the rigging of the halyard or blocking? Thanks