Purchase Questions

Jul 13, 2017
10
Catalina 275 Annapolis
As a potential new owner, I've been getting up a list of things I'd want to know before getting serious about buying. Among them:
1) Is the self-tacking jib an option, or are you stuck with it? (From the discussion, I think I'd rather do without, if possible.)
2) I get vague hints that you can get either/both a 155 and 135 genoa for the boat (as well as the asym spin). For racing here on the Chesapeake, that would be important, as PHRF in its infinite wisdom assumes every racer uses a 155 & will only give you 12 seconds a mile if you don't (& that only after jawing at them a bit). If so, where do the tracks go, exactly, and do the sheets go inboard or outboard of the shrouds? And is this actually available from Catalina, or is it DIY?
3) Is it possible to use your own sail maker instead of Doyle? I use North & am well satisfied--the local shop understands the Bay.
4) Will the flicker allow for even more roach at the head? If so, one could get a little extra (unrated) power into the sailplan (if I understand PHRF correctly).
5) What's the best bottom paint for a racer? (Anyone sailing on the Bay would have the best answer for me probably, but feel free to start a discussion!)

Thanks!
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
"Snarkhunter, post: 1387335, member: 138659"]As a potential new owner,
Based on which boat... A Catalina 275?
I've been getting up a list of things I'd want to know before getting serious about buying. Among them:
1) Is the self-tacking jib an option, or are you stuck with it? (From the discussion, I think I'd rather do without, if possible.)
Is this a new boat? A self tacking jib is always an option. On a New boat you may have to order it that way. Suspect the option is to make it easier on a cruiser. A racer would not want a self tacking jib. Too little sail compared to the competition.
2) I get vague hints that you can get either/both a 155 and 135 genoa for the boat (as well as the asym spin).
Your sail plan can be what you want it to be. A 155, a 135, a 100, a 90.... money is the only limiting element. Some racers have more money in their sails then their boat. You might want to think about the Asymmetrical. Most racers I know prefer a standard spinnaker. Then if money permits they add an asymmetrical or a Gennaker to expand their light wind options.
For racing here on the Chesapeake, that would be important, as PHRF in its infinite wisdom assumes every racer uses a 155 & will only give you 12 seconds a mile if you don't (& that only after jawing at them a bit). If so, where do the tracks go, exactly,
Depending on your sail plan you may want inside and out side tracks. Inside for a smaller blade and out side for the 155.
and do the sheets go inboard or outboard of the shrouds?
Sheet location will depend on tracks.
And is this actually available from Catalina, or is it DIY?
New boat you can order it all. Likely the dealer will be making the modifications/special options. Or you DIY if you are handy. Save a few boat bucks.
3) Is it possible to use your own sail maker instead of Doyle? I use North & am well satisfied--the local shop understands the Bay.
Sails are your own sourced option. Doyle is available from this site. https://shop.sailboatowners.com/cu/detail-sails.php But you can buy the sails of your choice.
4) Will the flicker allow for even more roach at the head? If so, one could get a little extra (unrated) power into the sailplan (if I understand PHRF correctly).
5) What's the best bottom paint for a racer? (Anyone sailing on the Bay would have the best answer for me probably, but feel free to start a discussion!)
Check out the Jamestown Distributors Bottom Paint Survey... https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/surveyMap.do?surveyId=101
If your racing, and you will be polishing the bottom to maintain the slickest surface, then a hard coated bottom is optimum. This means more possible work and less time between paint jobs... Which is ok because you are investing in a racer that will let you win every event you enter...

Thanks!

You might also want to explore some sailing classes that will focus on sail trim and tactics. Perhaps a class on rules. Maybe crew for some of the successful boats to gain the knowledge of what and how they sail their boat. Unlike race cars it is not all in the boat or it's equipment.
Good luck and
Fair winds. The Catalina is a great boat.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Adding roach will change the sail plan balance by moving it aft. so the boat will want to turn into the wind more. that means either powering up the jib, de-powering the main (probably not what a racer would do) or adding more weather helm (also probably not what you want to do due to the increased drag).... so powering up the jib is the only option......the question then is "can I power up the jib enough to balance the extra roach so the boat goes faster?" that would push you toward a bigger jib in all wind conditions....aka $$$$ for the sails to cover the wind conditions.
Me personally, I would use the PHRF for what it is intended, normalization of the fleet. Stick with what I have and not make a lot of drastic changes just to change my PHRF. Once I start winning (not necessarily being the first to cross the finish line) then you might want to start looking at moding the boat/sails. Skill is just as if not more important as equipment. The best boat in the world sailed by a lugnut is not going to score well no matter how "fast" she is. The average boat sailed by a pro is going to beat most of the competition most of the time.

Welcome aboard and to the wonderful world of throwing $$ into a hole in the water called a racing boat.
 
Jun 6, 2016
204
Catalina 275 Wilmette, IL
As for your forklift question in "Calling", I don't know if your info is correct. I suspect the picture you speak of is hull #1 at the 2013 Annapolis show. I always assume that is how it got into the water for the show. If the forklift can carry it for a publicity shot, why not for a launch? What would make the C275 unforkable as the answer you received? I think this is a better question for your marina because they would know the weight limit (C275's weigh more than listed) and any problems they may have with a sailboat. If your marina can forklift your boat, than why not a different sailboat?

As for your other questions:
1) The self-tacking jib is standard (no charge), but talk to your dealer who can talk to Catalina and you should be able to get a credit for a C275 without a jib. I did it for at least a half dozen different items. The self-tacker is not the worst as long as you are close-hauled. And in windy conditions it would be better than putting a wrap into a larger jib.
2) There are no stock tracks that can support a 155 or 135 genoa. You would have to add them and I don't know how well that would work out. Proportionally, the C275 is a narrow boat so you will have to consider the spreaders/stays as well as the lifeline. Plus, the genoa blocks will not be in the ideal location for the cabin top winches. When you go for your test sail, have a good look. Maybe have your sailmaker look as well. The tracks on the cabin top (inside the stays) can support a 106 and even then PMK in "Problems" stated his leach was touching the [front of the] spreader. Maybe different size asymms as an option? Or better yet, try to get the PHRF where it belongs for the C275. Yeah, I know, fat chance.
3) Ask your local shop.
4) In light winds the upper 2-3 battens can get hung up on the backstay, so keep that in mind if you go bigger.
5) Can't answer that question as I'm in fresh water and VC-17 is the typical paint that is used.
 
Jul 13, 2017
10
Catalina 275 Annapolis
Ok, that was what was confusing me re #1,2. The brochure shows an optional genoa track; I couldn't figure out how that would work so much inboard. I had to modify my Colgate to add a genny; 12 secs/mile just isn't good enough to do without one. So I know what you mean about the spreaders/block locations--tacking is a bear with the blocks I have. Given that PHRF is using a vpp to set its ratings, you'd think they could compensate for boats not designed for a 155, but they don't, not around here & not very well, at any rate. And I thought I remember a dealer telling me that the self-tacking jib could be replaced by a normal one for lower cost, ie, that the self-tacker was actually an option. But that may be "alternate facts" (-: or Catalina may have changed its mind.

Re: #3. What I meant was, can you order the boat without sails & let your local shop do the job, or do you have to have the boat come with sails?

Re: #4. Good to know, sounds like roaching out isn't that good of an idea.
 
Jun 6, 2016
204
Catalina 275 Wilmette, IL
The self-tacker is standard. The optional "genoa track" (no sail) became standard (no charge) in 2014 to promote one design racing. I assume it is still standard. It really is a 106% and you can see the tracks in the recent "deck layout" thread. It is not for a 135 or 155%. There is non-skid everywhere else and no considerations for any other "optional" tracks. I have 0" between the port lifeline and the shroud. I have about 1/4" between the starboard lifeline and the shroud. I just don't see any genoa fitting on this boat period. Took a picture today from the aft so you can maybe see what you are dealing with.

P1030461.JPG


If you want this boat, than you should be prepared that you will not sail it with a 155. If you want a more exciting boat for about the same price (???), look at the Seascape 27. My wife would have shot me if I came home with one, but if I was single, I would certainly consider it.

I highly suspect that Catalina will sell you a boat without any sails if that is what you want. Could be a problem if they preorder sails with the numbers on them (numbers match hull number) and at worst they make you wait till the preorders are made. Talk to a dealer and things like this should be able to be worked out.

And yes, looking at it some more today, I would not add to the roach. You'll regret it in light winds because of the hassle.
 
Jul 13, 2017
10
Catalina 275 Annapolis
I suspect a Seascape would be too. . . exciting for some of the crew I've sailed with in the past (-:

Given enough ingenuity, one can overcome most things on the water, but I can't see any amount of ingenuity being worth it in this case, to add the bigger sail. It's only ever an issue on the Bay if you are racing PHRF because of the way they rate boats. It's not a cruising or day sailing issue at all. For that matter, it isn't an issue in higher winds because you can't carry the thing in the first place; 12-13 kts is about the crossover point between choosing jib or genny in my Colgate and I bet it wouldn't be much different in a 275.

The earlier point in the thread about the forklift: you can see a curious photo if you look for it (sailannapolis has it as part of their website on the boat & I've seen it as part of boat for sale publicity elsewhere) where the boat is on the forklift at Jabin's (my marina) but the photo is some odd composite: the boat is on the lift all right, but the sky doesn't match the ground! My last discussion with the yard was that theoretically they might be able to do this a few times, but realize the placement was too delicate to risk on a regular basis. (The head yard guy didn't recall the boat in question very well.) However, I have received no definitive answer as yet & it might be that they have to get a boat in and work with it for a while before they would be sure one way or the other.

Thanks for the photo, looks good. About how fast were you making when you took the shot?
 
Jun 6, 2016
204
Catalina 275 Wilmette, IL
When I was researching, I studied that picture in 2014 and it is still on my hard drive. The picture(s) appear to be legitimate but obviously the exposure from the bottom and the top are different. Probably the shots were too close to get everything in the picture and needed multiple shots. Unfortunately, horrible job on photo shopping the 3+ pictures where the top picture is way too far to the left. But it gave me a good idea of the wing keel which I had purchased because of skinny water in my harbor. In the end, it is still up to your yard if they want to forklift your boat around even if they did launch that boat.

At the time of the picture from yesterday, after crossing paths with the Mac boats, we were bouncing around between and 6 and 6.5 kts. The C275 may be decked out to look fast, but it is still a Catalina. That said, it is still a very pleasant boat to sail and I think you will like it when you jump on PMK's boat for a test sail.