423 in mast main furling

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,048
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
So yesterday was first time sailing new boat which also meant first time using an in mast furling. Rigger helped me put sails on and said luff of sail does not slide into the foil like headsail. Is this correct as the overal shape didn't appear right. I did have to add more tension on main halyard which helped a bit but..... still boat sailed great at 7.5 knots in 12 breeze. Attached is a picture.
Thanks
 

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Dec 19, 2006
5,809
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
On my Selden in mast the main sail does go into just like my head sail on my 2007 H-36.
Nick
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,990
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
The picture looks strange. Is there a gap between the sail luff and the mast? How do you get a clear picture of the radar dome and the spreader through the sail luff and the mast?
 
May 17, 2004
5,028
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
If I'm seeing the picture right, the sail is attached to the furler only at the head and the tack? If so, that's definitely not what I would expect. Our Beneteau (US Spars) in mast furler has the sail luff go into the foil similar to the headsail. How can you even furl it if the luff isn't in the mast?
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,048
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
That is what I thought.... have to open access ports and inspect today. Sail actually furled perfect but....... when unfurling sail it had a wrinkle and got stuck for a second. I pulled sail in a bit then she came right out.... then I added a couple turns to add tension on the main which brought the luff closer but obviously not right.
Jssailem.... yes does not look right.

Like I said never used this set up nor have a sailed on a boat that had one so I have no point of reference.

Thanks!
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,990
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Your gut reaction said something was amiss. I would trust it. Till proven wrong.
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Rigger helped me put sails on and said luff of sail does not slide into the foil like headsail.
Thanks
I think you need a new rigger! Definitely agree with David on both points; your mainsail is presently attached at the tack & head only. Also, amazed that you could even furl it. I wouldn't use it again until you fix it properly; you're setting yourself up for a major jam. On my 343 (us spars furling mast), there is a furling tube inside the mast that that has a full length slot in which the sails luff tape fits into (similar to the jib). There are two pieces of webbing one at the tack & one at the head that attach to the furling mechanism. When the sail is installed properly, there will be no gap between the mast & the sail's luff.
You will have to lower the sail, open the inspection plates on the mast and feed the luff tape into the furling tube slot. Definitely need two people and a can of sail Kote spray to do this job. Insert the luff tape, spray it, hoist about a foot, & repeat. The difficulty is that there is very limited clearance in which to thread the luff tape. Ensure that there is adequate tension on the luff when finished, because the sail will jam when furling/unfurling if there is isn't enough tension. Refer to the schematics on the US Spars site to view the components inside the mast. Might want to read up on replacing the furling line and servicing / lubricating the furling components inside the base of the mast, as these are items that require routine maintenance to avoid furling problems.
 
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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
What does the luft edge of the sail look like? Is there a bolt rope sewn in? That would slide into a groove in the furler "rod" (don't know what that long hardware piece that connects the top to the bottom that the sail wraps around.)
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Bill,
Its pretty much the same as that found on a roller furling jib. I wouldn't exactly call it a bolt rope as seen on the foot of conventional mainsail; however, same principle. I guesstimate that the luff tape is approximately 1/4" to 5/16" in diameter and is sewn onto the mainsail along the entire length of the luff. It fits very tightly in the luff groove / slot of the furling foil extrusion that traverses the length of the inside of the mast. The foil rotates inside the mast as the sail wraps around it when reefing and unwraps when unfurling---same as a roller furled jib. Unlike a roller furling jib, there is very limited access to thread the luff tape in the foil slot and once you get it started there is quite a bit of friction because of the tight fit. Of course, the friction increases as you hoist the sail up the foil with the halyard. Lots of fun!
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,048
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Yes there is a bolt rope sewn into luff. Boat is new to me.... brought the sails to a sailmaker near where boat was in Westbrook Connecticut to inspect and clean. When went to bring boat home he said he would help..... it was cold and a bit rainy. First time I actually saw the sails and assumed he knew....... that always bites me. I read and iTunes about everything dealing with in mast sail EXCEPT putting on. Anyway, will drop sail next week and redo.

Thanks to all!
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
doctrine man's commentary on von Clausewitz, observation # 8 would seem to apply here.
There is ALWAYS one more idiot in the room than you planned for.
Problem is you can't tell your sailmaker is an idiot just by looking at him/her
 
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Aug 27, 2014
91
Beneteau 373 San Diego
Agree totally with Big Easy's post above. I would think it incredulous that ANY rigger ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD would not know how to properly put the bolt rope into its slot, but these days, like everything else in our world, I continue to be amazed at the illogic of many things. The way it looks in your pic is 100% wrong, and I can't believe that it even furls at all without major issues. Do not sail without fixing. Ask anyone with any experience at all with an in mast furling system in your marina to help you. This is a 10 minute fix.
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,048
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Yes... does not compute. Anyway will drop and rehoist the sail next weekend.
 
Nov 2, 2008
126
Beneteau 331 Chicago (DuSable)
I think you need a new rigger! Definitely agree with David on both points; your mainsail is presently attached at the tack & head only. Also, amazed that you could even furl it. I wouldn't use it again until you fix it properly; you're setting yourself up for a major jam. On my 343 (us spars furling mast), there is a furling tube inside the mast that that has a full length slot in which the sails luff tape fits into (similar to the jib). There are two pieces of webbing one at the tack & one at the head that attach to the furling mechanism. When the sail is installed properly, there will be no gap between the mast & the sail's luff.......
Partially highjack this post as it is related I would also put this out there for comment. On our 2003 B331 with US Spar in mast during we would have a little bit of a problem furling her up on occasion. The bottom 3-8 inches up for the tack would catch outside the groove. I would then give it a gentle tap and get her started in the mast entry and she would roll right up.

Few years alter I was given a chance to buy a brand new 331main from Neil Pryde factory for $220 delivered. So I could not pass up! Any this new 331 main had the luff rope sewn in the full length of the luff. The luff entry is about 1 foot above the tack (foot) and with this new sail there is a short 1 foot section I feed DOWNWARD to the tack. Now it's totally contracted in the luff groove.

This will only make sense to those that went through this and maybe I'm not too clear but it really helps furling up after a sail.

Note: I still have the spare original used 3-4 season B331 main if anyone needs one.......

Regards
Craig
 
Jan 10, 2017
6
Beneteau Oceanis 45 Myrtle Beach, SC
Bis Easy is correct in his description. On the US Spars mast there is an opening in the groove about four feet above the tack of the sail. Two person job in no or little wind from the bow only. Put the head of the sail luff tape in the groove and pull up slow;y and make sure the tap stays in the groove. Pull up as high as you can go. The take the bottom or tack of the sail and place in the opening groove and feed down. Put the shackle on the foot and tighten tight, but not super tight as this will create binding and excessive wear on the bearings. Too loose and the sail will have wrinkles and bind in the mast. When I put on and take off the head and tack shackles, I put a rag around the foil to catch anything that might drop. When I screw in the shakle, I tape the screw to the allen's wrench or screwdriver.

So yesterday was first time sailing new boat which also meant first time using an in mast furling. Rigger helped me put sails on and said luff of sail does not slide into the foil like headsail. Is this correct as the overal shape didn't appear right. I did have to add more tension on main halyard which helped a bit but..... still boat sailed great at 7.5 knots in 12 breeze. Attached is a picture.
Thanks
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Is there a gap between the sail luff and the mast?
I download his picture to ZOOM in. What the Heck a new transparent sail luff? Here is how it should look...
Unfurled.jpg


The bottom 3-8 inches up for the tack would catch outside the groove.
You should seek a better sail maker too
or adjust main sail.
This happened to our new sail. It was my fault. I just pulled up more on the halyard until the groove matched the luff tape.
Our Sail maker new his craft.
Jim...
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,990
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Jim you make my point. The posted image shows the sails luff is not attached to the mast furler. It is hanging in the air. You can see the spreaders and the radar dome between the sail luff and the mast.
First clue something is amiss.