Pop-top support when mast is down ?

[Leeward Rail]

Hello all,

In the process of working on our Catalina 22, and when occasionally sleeping/camping in it on the trailer, I've wanted a way to hold the pop-top up, when the mast was down.

At first I used 4 supports as shown in the C22 Sailing Assoc. Tech Manual.

Currently I'm using/testing a single makeshift wood support, bolted into the mast step:

Anyone else been supporting their pop-top when the mast was down ?

 

[Sacto Dave]

Ha! I had to go check my top, wasn't sure my '73 had that cut out. Sure does though. Mine wouldn't raise when I tried it, one of the lift piston anchors is broken out of the cabin roof. Haven't looked at it since. One of the many projects.

 

[Gene Neill]

Hello all,

In the process of working on our Catalina 22, and when occasionally sleeping/camping in it on the trailer, I've wanted a way to hold the pop-top up, when the mast was down.

At first I used 4 supports as shown in the C22 Sailing Assoc. Tech Manual.

Currently I'm using/testing a single makeshift wood support, bolted into the mast step:

That'll do it!!

Daydream had the power lift kit already installed when we bought her. It holds the hatch up, but there's not much lateral strength at all. Something expensive would probably break if you lurched into it too hard, or from the wrong direction.

 

[Leeward Rail]

I agree about the risk with no lateral support.

The experimental wood support still worries me, due to lack fact the pop-top doesn't really attach to it.
It simply has a metal clamp that fits over the lip, like the normal pop-top lock does.
Since the wood "stub mast" relies on only the mast step to hold it in place, it moves around. That makes it possible for the pop-top to slip out of the clamp if it's hit hard enough.

I plan on instaling gas lifts eventually. Those, combined with some form of the wood "stub mast" for lateral support, should make it safe enough.

 

[Drinkmilk]

When the mast is up I wrap a line around it and the two front struts. I'll check if I have any pics. Never did have/trust the little hook that was supposed to hold it up. Maybe drill a hole in the stub mast for the mast bolt fit through and secure a line from it to the front struts?

 

[Drinkmilk]

Look closely at the struts and you'll see a white line tied from them around the mast. Not pretty, but it worked.

 

[dzl]

I think the stub mast is a go, with a little refinement. You could put some eye bolts in it and run some stays from the top to the side chain plates and your step tangs. Some rope with a taut line hitch is the first thing that comes to mind.... That should hold it steady enough against any knocks, then your simple clamp should be enough to hold the top up.

 

[Slartibartfass]

You might want to consider the discussion on hoisting on the CP22 forum to use the lift.

http://www.capri22.net/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=32

 

[dzl]

You might want to consider the discussion on hoisting on the CP22 forum to use the lift. http://www.capri22.net/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=32

Um... Huh? That's all talking about lifting a Capri 22 using an eyebolt mounted inside the bilge. Doesn't really apply to the C-22 (or this thread)

 

[Slartibartfass]

Um... Huh? That's all talking about lifting a Capri 22 using an eyebolt mounted inside the bilge. Doesn't really apply to the C-22 (or this thread)

You are right. Forgot that you have no fixed keel.... Doh......

 

[Leeward Rail]

Look closely at the struts and you'll see a white line tied from them around the mast. Not pretty, but it worked.

hehe. I've actually done that with the mast up, when i didn't have the correct pop-top lock. It worked fairly well.
Except that there was a lot of lateral movement. If the line had no stretch, and it was really tight it would likely solve that,

This reminds me that I tried running line from the top of the rear struts to the bottom of the front ones. Without a stub mast. It worked fairly well, but allowed forward movement. 2 lines on either side, for a total of 4, would work ok and negate the stub mast.
It would be simple to make up some dedicated ones for that. The concerns I had with that method, were the lack of lateral support, and the fact that the line slightly impeded access to the side area around the pop-top, which makes great storage space when the pop-top is raised and the cover it is on.

 

[Leeward Rail]

You are right. Forgot that you have no fixed keel.... Doh......

I'm guessing you meant to reply to the comment I made in another thread about lifting the C22 with an automotive lift ?

 

[Leeward Rail]

I think the stub mast is a go, with a little refinement. You could put some eye bolts in it and run some stays from the top to the side chain plates and your step tangs.

That's what I'm leaning towards. Initially I was cosidering a single line run from the top of the stub mast, down to the front tang loop on the mast step. Unfortunately the angle won't work as well, or will that stabilize it as well as two lines run out to the sides.
Some cheap cam straps should work well, as long as the hooks are the right size.
Rope + carabiner hooks might be better since they could serve multiple purposes.
I'll have to install the cover, and see if the angles work out. I may have to make the final version a bit taller so that the lines are held away from the cover/canopy.

The trick is having lateral strength in addition to holding the top up.
Since the stub mast fits in the recess in the pop-top it supplies the lateral support as long as the stub mast itself is solidly secured.

With the lines running forward to give that extra bit of stability to the stub mast, and the stub mast providing lateral support in addition to preventing the pop-top from moving forward (unlike simply using rope), it may just be strong enough to prevent the top from crashing down if someone of reasonable weight falls against it.

 

[Slartibartfass]

I'm guessing you meant to reply to the comment I made in another thread about lifting the C22 with an automotive lift ?

Yeah.... Maybe a 2 strap contraption aft and fore the keel tied to the lift could work...? Balance issue obviously....

 

[Jacktar]

The stub mast works just like the real thing. There is no lateral support other than the stiffness of the legs themselves, when using the real mast and pop top clamp. If it is rickety check the bolts and plastic washers on the pop top and deck top connection points which may just need some tightening. The pop to was not designed to be rigid when raised or be used as a hand hold etc.

 

[Leeward Rail]

The stub mast works just like the real thing.

True... except for one crucial thing. The real mast has stays that hold it rigid.
That wood stub mast, as it is now, simply relies in the mast step to hold it in place. With a single bolt, the only thing preventing it from rotating forward is the flat bottom. Tighter tolerances may help but being made of wood, it just won't fit that solidly in the mast step with a single bolt holding it in place.
It's a has a lot more movement than the mast.
Even if I made the stub mast exactly the correct width, the wood will compress and even with friction from a tight bolt, it would still move, unlike the real mast.

The pop to was not designed to be rigid when raised or be used as a hand hold etc.

True. It's a bad design IMO.

People have modified the actual mast lock system because it can't be trusted.
murphy's law says.. even if you know something is not for a handhold, one day some wake will hit the boat and you will grab for it, or fall against it.

That said, I don't expect the stub mast to hold it up better than the normal mast, but it would be nice to at least have it as solid as is possible while being simple to stow/use.

Besides... I was once threatened with a beating+jail, by a guy who thought that some bruises, which my wife got from a wayward cockpit locker door while we waited out the weather south of hurricane Ike, were from me.
I shook his hand, telling him that I wish more guys were like him.
My wife has joked about it ever since.
The C22 will never be in those conditions, but the less risk of bruises the better.

 

[Gene Neill]

LOL ... my wife ALWAYS seems to come home from cruises with a fresh bruise or two.

Oh, and a broken ankle from the Pensacola B.E.E.R. cruise last June.

 

[CloudDiver]

Since I reinstalled my PopTop after painting and put in new hardware it is really stiff. In the pics I posted on my thread I had it up with no support and it and it stayed put on its own (magic... or friction?). Not that I trust that, I'm pretty sure once the 'new' wears off it will probably loosen up. I fully intend to put in the gas shocks, but as far as upgrades go that is low on the totem pole... I've got a ton of other things to do to so I can finally get her wet... I would like to see anyone else's modifications to the stock lock, I hate that thing too (mine has a bent knob bolt that will be REAL fun to get out). Also, passive locks or blocking devices that keep it from coming down should the mast lock disengage (I've seen one or two examples of such).

 

[C22-Daydreamer]

I've done nothing to my pop top on my 76 model and it stands fairly stiff. If I rock the boat any though it will come down. Most of the time it stays put and don't even think about it when working in the cabin.