Hunter 410 Windlass Slowdown

jsmac

.
Jan 22, 2008
94
Hunter 410 Severna Park, MD MD
Hi,

I have a 1998 Hunter 410 with a Lewmar windlass. While working on the boat this past weekend I deployed all 250' of chain with no issues. While retrieving the chain the next day the windlass worked fine for about 200' then is slowed down to a minimal spin, useless until it stopped.

I was manually feeding the chain so there was minimal strain on the windlass as the chain was just dropped onto my dock.

I have an up and down foot button, a Lewmar windlass, and a So-Pac Windlass Control box (relay) model SPA-10700 which takes the foot button signal and sends DC power to the forward or reverse terminals of the windlass motor.

When I tested the DC power at the relay it was about 12 volts. When I pressed the foot button the power at the motor was only about 1-2 volts and decreased rapidly.

I am assuming the Windlass Control relay is shot. But, I don't want to buy a new one to try it because they're not cheap, $140+. I don't have jumpers large enough to jump out the power around the relay, I guess I could use my car jumper cables, so I am asking this forum if this sounds like the culprit. I am REALLY hoping it's not the motor, but don't think it is because it's not getting power when IO press the button. It does get some power for a short time and I here the relay clicking when I press the button, so I also don't think it's the buttons.

I have a picture of the relay attached and the windlass motor in case that helps.

Thanks as always!
 

Attachments

Dec 19, 2006
5,809
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Cleaning

Maybe from what I can see is maybe some corrosion around the wire connections at some time.
I would be very careful and clean the connections on the relay and careful not to break them and maybe spray electric spray cleaner first and maybe new connections from small wires and also clean up the large cables.
Nick
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,444
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Further to Seadaddler's suggestion, once the terminals are meticulously clean, coat them with synthetic grease to avoid further corrosion.
 
Oct 3, 2011
75
Tayana 52 Jax
Some motors have a thermistor to prevent motor overload which from memory is wired through the control relay - might be worth checking if you have this.
 
Mar 19, 2010
30
Hunter 1997 376 Ventura, CA
Also all the corrosion will cause resistance and overheat the motor, Check the battery for a load drop when the windless is in operation this may be a weak cell in the battery.
Good Luck
Gary
 

jsmac

.
Jan 22, 2008
94
Hunter 410 Severna Park, MD MD
Hmm, so I know that neither the motor nor the relay control were hot. But, touching is not always accurate since it could be the backside or the unreachable side of wither that could have been hot. But, I don't think that was the issue since we took a long time to retract the chain, My Dad fed the chain off the dock, I pulled it to the front of the boat over some rope guides, and then the windlass pulled it up straight, and on and on taking several long breaks. Having said that, I don't see anything like this in any of the pictures but I'll look again.

The other thing was, we did not give it an hour or more rest. We basically pulled in the last 50', washed it all down, and closed the anchor well and went on to another task. I can try it again on Wednesday.
 

jsmac

.
Jan 22, 2008
94
Hunter 410 Severna Park, MD MD
Hi Gary, I did check the battery meter and it was solid when we tried the windlass during this odd period. Even the multi-meter I used didn't change voltage at the relay end when we tried the buttons, so I don't think that was the issue.

BUT, I'm sure all that corrosion is not good so it does call for cleaning and protecting.

Thanks

PS: Do you all think I am on the right path thinking it's the relay? I still need to check these other ideas but is my questioned conclusion sound?
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
There is only one way to tell. Get ahold of the concept of voltage drop. to wit; the voltage starts at battery positive and ends at battery negative. if you measure across the battery you see the whole voltage drop across that circuit. Now if you have two devices in the circuit (and 3 wires to connect them in series to the battery terminals) what you should see is the following:
battery terminal to first device (solenoid) -- almost no voltage drop
across the solenoid terminals -- also almost no voltage drop
solenoid terminal to motor terminal -- almost no voltage drop
across the motor terminals -- about 12 volts ie the load causes the voltage to drop as power is used
motor terminal to battery negative -- almost no voltage drop
all this is with the circuit drawing power.
now if you see a big voltage drop across the wires or solenoid then that power is not available to the motor and it will act accordingly and run slow.
you can also measure voltage drop for a wire connector by measuring across the terminal stud and the wire side of the lug.
The most you should see is a volt max. normal is somthing like 0.25 volts drop across a connection or down a wire.

I suspect that the solenoid terminals being corroded and you working it some caused the connectors to get warm and that set off the voltage drops that caused the motor to start running slow.

Good luck
 

Mulf

.
Dec 2, 2003
400
Hunter 410 Chester, MD (Kent Island)
Engine ON?

Just checking, did you have the engine on? My windlass won't perform much at all without the engine running, and I run it at fast idle. Let us know how you make out.
 
Apr 12, 2009
101
Hunter 1996 hunter 40.5 Green Cove Springs FL
Hi, I have a 1998 Hunter 410 with a Lewmar windlass. While working on the boat this past weekend I deployed all 250' of chain with no issues. While retrieving the chain the next day the windlass worked fine for about 200' then is slowed down to a minimal spin, useless until it stopped. I was manually feeding the chain so there was minimal strain on the windlass as the chain was just dropped onto my dock. I have an up and down foot button, a Lewmar windlass, and a So-Pac Windlass Control box (relay) model SPA-10700 which takes the foot button signal and sends DC power to the forward or reverse terminals of the windlass motor. When I tested the DC power at the relay it was about 12 volts. When I pressed the foot button the power at the motor was only about 1-2 volts and decreased rapidly. I am assuming the Windlass Control relay is shot. But, I don't want to buy a new one to try it because they're not cheap, $140+. I don't have jumpers large enough to jump out the power around the relay, I guess I could use my car jumper cables, so I am asking this forum if this sounds like the culprit. I am REALLY hoping it's not the motor, but don't think it is because it's not getting power when IO press the button. It does get some power for a short time and I here the relay clicking when I press the button, so I also don't think it's the buttons. I have a picture of the relay attached and the windlass motor in case that helps. Thanks as always!
I had that problem and had new brushes installed and the armature cleaned up. Worked for one year
 

jsmac

.
Jan 22, 2008
94
Hunter 410 Severna Park, MD MD
Re: Engine ON?

Hi, the engine was not on, I was running on battery and shore power only. BUT, as I stated the windless worked fine the day before paying out 250' of chain, maybe 10-20' at a time in between breaks and maneuvering the chain on the dock and worked that day retrieving 200' of chain, again with intermittent breaks to adjust the chain off of the dock, it was jut the last 50' when the windless slowed down.
 

jsmac

.
Jan 22, 2008
94
Hunter 410 Severna Park, MD MD
Thanks Bill, I do understand the concept of voltage drop, 4 years of EE school and several years in the field as an engineer. Also, noted is the issue of corrosion but the picture shows it worse than it really was and as I stated the relay did kick in when I pressed the button and the motor did turn albeit slowly, so the most corded parts, the button terminals, were not the issue. The battery terminals are fairly clean and tight, but do warrant some cleaning. Also, I am pretty sure the voltage drop across the batteries, at the batteries, would occur if the motor was the culprit as it would draw down the battery voltage as it bogged down. In my case, the batter voltage did not waiver at all which leads me to believe the relay was acting as the blockage and not even letting any power through it.

I'll be on the boat on Tuesday/Wednesday this week and will report back more findings. I'll also have my car jumper cables with me to bypass the relay and I'll try that before I clean all the terminals.

Thanks for your insights.
 
Jan 12, 2011
930
Hunter 410 full time cruiser
I'll be on the boat on Tuesday/Wednesday this week and will report back more findings. I'll also have my car jumper cables with me to bypass the relay and I'll try that before I clean all the terminals.


.

I don't think it's the relay. The relay is powered by the house batteries and the windlass from the start battery.

Do you have an inverter, was the switch for it selected to 1,2,both or off? Is house battery wire on your charge isolator that runs to the inverter on the input terminal or an output terminal?

There are like 3/4 different wiring methods on the 410 depending on the options that the boat had.

But unless cleaning the terminals up on the off chance that the relay isn't engaging (possible) I think your start battery is the problem.
 

jsmac

.
Jan 22, 2008
94
Hunter 410 Severna Park, MD MD
OK, so I do have an inverter, and as said I was on house power and the engine was not on. I am hoping that cleaning the terminals and running the engine will solve the problem. I was not looking at the start battery voltage when I ran the windless so if the windless runs off the start battery, then it's totally possible the start battery was running low or drained. The house was OK so that makes sense. I'll be there tomorrow and will look at this. Thanks Don.
 
Jan 12, 2011
930
Hunter 410 full time cruiser
If you had shore power connected and your charger on it should have supplied power to your windlass. The charging power from the charger goes though the inverter selection switch to supply the input terminal on the isolator. I have both my inverter/charger cable and my engine alternator cable on the input terminal of my isolator and the start battery on an output terminal. Wired this way power the house bank if the inverter selector switch is on either 1/2/both the house bank will send power to the start battery (but the start battery cann't supply the house batteries). But if the if the isolator is wired so that the inverter selector switch is on the isolator output, then the only way to get power to the start circuit is from the start battery or from a charging source (engine, shore power, generator).

If you measure the voltage again be sure to tell us the voltage at the small wires on the terminal (the control circuit from the house main DC panel) and the voltage on the large cables (the windlass motor circuit from the start battery). If low on the small wires it probably is a corrosion problem at the connections (you really need to clean those based on your photos), if low on the large cables it is your start battery.