Would a Oceanis 393 be strong enough for circumnavigating?

[Mechone]

When I went to purchased my boat it was on the hard, I noticed the floor pushing up .I talked to the lift operator who has lifted thousands of boats and told me he noticed the keel pushed up like a 1/2 inch when sitting it on the hard , he also told me there were a couple of others in the yard where he has seen this too, one being a Jeanneau.
I hired a surveyor to inspect it with me along with 2 boat yards , we all came to the conclusion the matrix had/was separating. I got my deposit back and walked away. 6 months goes by the owner calls me and tells me it is in the shop being fixed and if I was still interested go in look at it and talk to yacht builder doing the repair. I did offered him a lower price as the season was almost over and bought the boat.
The test after repair in the travel lift the full weight of the boat was placed on the keel with no flexing inside or out.
The matrix and glue holds in the middle because of the keel bolts and separates either side front and back like a crack in glass slowly getting worse. So when you buy a boat you want the full weight of the boat on the keel with the boat balancing in the lift. Two others different beneteau models had floor flexing up on the hard , had a pan cut out and sure enough glue had popped. The owner of my boat sailed it for 2 years like this, how many others are out there that have separated and don't get taken out and checked?

 

[Mechone]

This is not just a Beneteau problem it's all newer boats with a matrix ,but is seen more in Beneteau's I believe because they sell more boats than anyone else.
Really the matrix should not have pans in it adjacent and forward and rear of the keel on all boats,glue the matrix in ,and then glass in the pans either side of the keel and up the stringer to ensure strength ,but that takes time and drives costs up

 

["Selah"]

Hey all, please forgive my ignorance. I am refitting a Lockley Newport LN23 for coastal sailing and one day, in the not to distant future, hope to upgrade to a larger boat. When you talk about the matrix pan, are you talking about where the hull and deck come together? I was concerned about water possibly leaking in under where the deck and hull join so I ran a bead of 3M5200 around the interior of the cabin. Now, I'm wondering if I went overboard with this. And, if I am completely missing the point of discussion about the matrix pan? Do not mean to distract from opening post. Appreciate any input to help me learn.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Hey all, please forgive my ignorance. I am refitting a Lockley Newport LN23 for coastal sailing and one day, in the not to distant future, hope to upgrade to a larger boat. When you talk about the matrix pan, are you talking about where the hull and deck come together? I was concerned about water possibly leaking in under where the deck and hull join so I ran a bead of 3M5200 around the interior of the cabin. Now, I'm wondering if I went overboard with this. And, if I am completely missing the point of discussion about the matrix pan? Do not mean to distract from opening post. Appreciate any input to help me learn.

The pan joint that they're talking about here is different than the hull / deck joint. The matrix grid joint is basically where the skin of the hull is joined to the fiberglass members that give it strength.

5200 is generally considered the right choice for the hull to deck joint.

 

["Selah"]

Thank you for that info and assuring me of the choice I made for the deck/hull joining compound. There's not a day goes by that I don't learn something on this forum.

 

[Jackdaw]

I think Mechone has a serious point. Might be valid for all boats with a 'matrix pan' poorly glued inside the hull. Question to Mechone: how/why did you guys adopt the idea to have this cheched and opened up in the first place? For everyone her: in the most extreme case you might experience this.
Anybody?

Um. Not so much. The Cheeki Rafiki incident involved a keel failure on a boat that had suffered 1) Significant keel and structure damage due to a serious grounding, and 2) had a repair made that was NOT in compliance with Beneteau's and Bureau Veritas published standards for such a repair. And it STILL sailed over 7000 hard ocean miles before failing. If you read the report, the findings address that, and not any construction weakness.

They do address an issue inherent in all such boats, that the monolithic nature of the grid makes inspection hard and repairs difficult. Not any ordinary glass shop can do it, and its going to cost. This is true, but my personal option is 'thats fine'. Some people rail over the complexity of repairing such damage in an accident like that, but not me. I treat this just like my uni-body car. Too damaged, and the insurance company totals it and gives the the cash for whats it was worth. Done well, the design (hull and adhered monolithic grid stricture) is a strong and cost effective way to build boats.

 

[Jackdaw]

When I went to purchased my boat it was on the hard, I noticed the floor pushing up .I talked to the lift operator who has lifted thousands of boats and told me he noticed the keel pushed up like a 1/2 inch when sitting it on the hard , he also told me there were a couple of others in the yard where he has seen this too, one being a Jeanneau.
I hired a surveyor to inspect it with me along with 2 boat yards , we all came to the conclusion the matrix had/was separating. I got my deposit back and walked away. 6 months goes by the owner calls me and tells me it is in the shop being fixed and if I was still interested go in look at it and talk to yacht builder doing the repair. I did offered him a lower price as the season was almost over and bought the boat.
The test after repair in the travel lift the full weight of the boat was placed on the keel with no flexing inside or out.
The matrix and glue holds in the middle because of the keel bolts and separates either side front and back like a crack in glass slowly getting worse. So when you buy a boat you want the full weight of the boat on the keel with the boat balancing in the lift. Two others different beneteau models had floor flexing up on the hard , had a pan cut out and sure enough glue had popped. The owner of my boat sailed it for 2 years like this, how many others are out there that have separated and don't get taken out and checked?

This is exactly why the lifting straps are almost always placed on the bulkheads. Because the bulkhead is secured to the deck/liner and presses the pan into the hull, it is absolutely impossible to flex the pan away from the hull at this point. At these points, the boat is pretty much uncompressable.

Incorrectly lifting any boat will damage it, simple fact.

 

[ToddS]

Hi Jack, valuable comment. What to think of the comment of Mechone? What boat do you own? And I think a baby stay is standard with every B393? Thanks

I know the 373s come standard with the babystay... (I own one)... so I'm pretty sure the (very similar) 393s do too.

 

[Gunni]

I know the 373s come standard with the babystay... (I own one)... so I'm pretty sure the (very similar) 393s do too.

They do not. And the baby stay would be a poor location for a headsail or storm sail.

 

[Jose Pla]

HansZelf

Having now owned 3 Beneteau's (373 and two Sense 50's). I would feel very comfortable circumnavigating (coconut run) on any properly sized Oceanis Series Beneteau. The minimum length would depend on crew size and cruising plans. I have been fortunate to have done passages on a Hallberg Rassy 40 (5 days), Swan 47 (5 days) and Cal 39 (12 days) - all of these had gentler motion than the Beneteau's and the interior layouts provided "better" utility (cooking, showers, sea berths, storage) while at sea. But, the negatives (cost, small cockpits, deep cave-like saloons, cramped living areas) of these boats has always made me prefer a larger volume production boat than a similarly LOA cruiser. Beneteau strikes the correct balance of sailing capabilities and at-anchor enjoyment. Given that cruising is 90% at-anchor and 10% at-sea, it foolish to simply focus on the 10% (especially out of fear). YouTube is chock full of couples and families circumnavigating in Beneteau's, Jeanneau's and Hunter's---- all living the dream!


Having said this--- these are my observations on upgrades that my boats have required:

1) floor boards need to have proper latches that secure them in the event of a knock down. I will assume the 393 does not have proper floor latches unless installed post-purchase
2) All drawers that open athwartship need to have pulls and rails replaced with heavier ones- I have destroyed drawers on all of my boats while cooking on passage when well healed. It is true that Beneteau's primary market are coastal cruisers, they do cut corners where warranted. Drawer pulls are one of them. I would not replace drawer slides that open forward/aft.
3) The 373 needed to have baby stay deck plate reinforced. Install an inner forestay for both heavy weather sailing
4) Shower drains suck! none of these will drain on both tacks. Sounds trivial, but a proper daily shower is as much of a moral booster as a sundowner and a good meal when on passage
5) Sea berth- unless you plan on having crew all sleep in the salon, you need to create proper sea berths in aft cabins
6) Tankage- fuel capacity for at least 500 miles. Most people only think about running engine only when wind dies, however being able to motor-sail will increase options for heavy weather avoidance.
7) The 373 had undersized compressor for the fridge and freezer- maximize insulation, create airflow and beef up compressor.
8) Stanchions on the 373 and 393 are too short and readily become loose. Replacing with higher stanchions advised. Tighten bolts often
9) Can you increase battery capacity? In the 373, this was hard given lack of space. Really look at the 393 and determine if you will have sufficient capacity.


Jose