Would a Oceanis 393 be strong enough for circumnavigating?

jon hansen · Feb 5, 2019

https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/28_1/boatreview/Beneteau_393_4627-1.html

jon hansen · Feb 5, 2019

https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/beneteau-393-fine-entry

jon hansen · Feb 5, 2019

usually it ain't the boat, it's the captain

Simon Sexton · Feb 5, 2019

@HansZelf ,

Good afternoon! People have circumnavigated the world in 30 foot boats; full length keels, bulletproof hull designs and thick, heavy rigging are often relied on to keep a vessel afloat in the harsh, undeterminable conditions the sea can inflict. The Oceanis 393 is a semi-performance bluewater cruiser that is properly equipped to offer sailors the style, comfort, and reliability that is necessary to complete a long journey.
PROS:
The 393 is very agile for her size, well equipped with lots of necessary navigational instruments and storage space for a long trip. The rig looks suitable for heavy weather, and the keel is deep enough to offer a decent amount of stability in case of a storm or gale.

CONS:
Parts are extremely pricey, and when you're circumnavigating, spare parts are absolutely required. Also, seeing as the boat you've got your eye on is a newer one, the keel will more than likely be a modified wing design. This offers good performance, but less stability and pointing ability than a fin keel would.

The Hunter 40.5 is also a very good candidate for your selected mission, but it has the same cons as the Beneteau, minus the pricey parts (all boat parts are expensive, as you know, I'm sure). A shallower draft and shorter keel and rudder will limit your boat's ability to cope with heavy weather. Other than that, both boats have a great amount of space, as well as offer lots of comfort and storage for supplies. Personally, I'd pick the Beneteau out of the two. If I were able to choose something else, though, I'd choose one of these:

Tartan 4000, or

Island Packet 40

Jackdaw · Feb 5, 2019

Hans,

You’ll find the basic construction of the boat to be sound. The solid glass hull is stout, the keel attachment is well founded, the deck/hull joint is foolproof. The rig might warrant a 2nd look, perhaps an inner stay for a heavier air sail. And maybe a baby stay to help prevent pumping. As you know, the key is to be able to have a sail plan that matches conditions. The more options the better.

The biggest issue you will face will be tankage and storage. These boats were built to weekend and it shows in the interior volume, which favors human space over stores. Be ready to upgrade that.

Then sort out sleeping while underway. Another feature of a weekender is that they are designed to be slept in at anchor. Seaberths will have to be created.

But enjoy! you seem to have a good idea of what you want and how to get there.

PS - Used to have an office in Naarden, right across the river from you.

BigEasy · Feb 5, 2019

HansZelf said:
Hi all,

I consider buying a Beneteau Oceanis Clipper 393 (2001). From your experience, will this type of boat be capable of longer passages and even circumnavigating (‘milk run’) but also tough waters like North Sea and Bay of Biscay in Europe.

NO. I have sailed on a 393 many times doing ASA certifications, group sailing weekends, and privately chartering it myself. We sailed the boat as a coastal cruiser in the Gulf of Mexico and areas around the Florida Panhandle. Great boat in that environment; the layout, sail plan, and handling characteristics are great. I would think that it would be fine for cruising to Bahamas and Caribbean and along the US Coastal waters. I do not think the boat is suited for ocean crossings. For example, First night I slept in the aft cabin, I accidently stretched and hit a MDF panel in the back of the berth. The panel dislodged and I found it to have direct access into a rear cockpit storage locker. If the boat was boarded by large seas and the storage locker lid was compromised, there would be direct flooding into the cabin with no way to stop the flooding. Yes, I know that others have crossed oceans in some Beneteaus; however, I think there are better boats that are more suited for circumnavigation. I have no beef against Beneteau; I own one (343) and I am quite pleased with its intended purpose...coastal cruising.

Apex · Feb 5, 2019

Welcome back JD!
For the OP, what do YOU believe are the necessary merits for a boat suited for world travel? That may be a better place to start looking rather then trying to find a boat first. There was an article in the past year I read, but don't recall the finer details other than most buyers that get a boat with dreaming of sailing off to the horizon soon find the dream more work than anticipated and/or have learned enough in starting sailing longer distances that they prefer a different boat. To that end, pick what suits your needs TODAY, and enjoy while you learn more of what you want and need.
For most bluewater boats, stout and a more "traditional" designs tend to be more preferred.

shemandr · Feb 5, 2019

Waterproof compartments! Look at the Volvo boats. They could have their bows staved in and not sink. That is what you need. I don't know the B393. It may have that. Here is what I consider ocean worthy. Other types of designs have made successful voyages. But I think for serious voyages water tight compartments are desirable.

Jackdaw · Feb 5, 2019

Apex said:
Welcome back JD!
For the OP, what do YOU believe are the necessary merits for a boat suited for world travel? That may be a better place to start looking rather then trying to find a boat first. There was an article in the past year I read, but don't recall the finer details other than most buyers that get a boat with dreaming of sailing off to the horizon soon find the dream more work than anticipated and/or have learned enough in starting sailing longer distances that they prefer a different boat. To that end, pick what suits your needs TODAY, and enjoy while you learn more of what you want and need.
For most bluewater boats, stout and a more "traditional" designs tend to be more preferred.

That’s kinda a tough question. I outlined some of my thoughts in my first post. Most production builders shy away from that niche; the volumes simply will not be there. So they build a decent coastal boat that must be kitted out to be comfortable and safe offshore. Many Beneteau First 38 have gone all the way around will some mods.

Want a used boat that is ready from the builder a reasonably cost? Look at the Amal Santorin.

Mechone · Feb 6, 2019

Beneteau no, can't speak of makers ,however ,I know 2 surveyors wouldn't think of a Hunter. The problem with Beneteau is that the matrix is glued in ,the glue does not touch in all areas of the hull when they assemble it and beneteau doesnt know how much is touching. The constant pounding of heavy seas can cause this glue to let go.
How do I know , because my boat and 4 others that I know of have had this repaired ,cutting the pans out of the matrix and glassing the matrix to the hull making the hull about 1 inch thick where the pans were and up the sides of the stringer making them thicker. I don't know as I bought my boat after the repair , however others who had the repair done said the boat downstairs became very quiet as compared to before and felt better as in handling. Unless you buy a pre 1993 beneteau they were glassed in I believe.

Jackdaw · Feb 7, 2019

HansZelf said:
Hi Jack, valuable comment. What to think of the comment of Mechone? What boat do you own? And I think a baby stay is standard with every B393? Thanks

You are probably correct abut the baby-stay. I forget what xx3 series boats came with them.

I own a First 260 and a First 36.7.

As for the grid/hull fixing, I do know that Beni uses a structural adhesive, sometime augmented with glass to join the two. That is common in the industry. The glue/glass fixing is more common now in the First series of boats. I personally don't know of glue-only boats that have had a problem with the attachment. I assume glue is spread on areas prescribed by a jig that also aligns the grid. The notion that 'beneteau doesn't know how much is touching' is true I suppose because you can's 'see' the area when the grid is lowered. But I'd be surprised if there is a systemic problem with that process.

Bob S · Feb 7, 2019

I've been on this site too long.

I remembered a a post by Maine Sail and did a search.

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/i...that-have-circumnavigated.134362/#post-854256

Gunni · Feb 7, 2019

The Beneteau rig on a 411 is overbuilt, I assume the 393 is as well. In any case I would want a set of storm sails and the mast track to run a trysail. The owners 2 cabin would be the right boat because it gives you the sea-galley tucked to the quarter. Water tankage is divided between two tanks fore and aft, at 65gals each you could be fine, but a water-maker would be worth considering. Keel and grid construction on these boats is massive, never seen or heard of a problem. My 411 is entirely marine ply bulkheads and panels, set into molded channels with flexible adhesive, not a squeak in the roughest of conditions. Steering gear well constructed, composite rudder post, Whitlock steering. Large full stem anchor locker, watertight. Cockpit seating set up for sleeping and scoop stern allows for easy med-mooring or swim/dink access.

Drive gear is robust, 30mm shaft with massive shaft log (not strut), Volvo dripless seal. You will want a feathering/folding prop to protect the friction disk transmission. Some versions had upgraded Lewmar winch sizes for primary and cabin top, worth having. Run a hose on the cabin top fixed-light panel, they are prone to leak.

BigEasy · Feb 7, 2019

Gunni said:
Run a hose on the cabin top fixed-light panel, they are prone to leak.

Yes! Mine is leaking Again.....

Mechone · Feb 7, 2019

Jackdaw said:
You are probably correct abut the baby-stay. I forget what xx3 series boats came with them.

I own a First 260 and a First 36.7.

As for the grid/hull fixing, I do know that Beni uses a structural adhesive, sometime augmented with glass to join the two. That is common in the industry. The glue/glass fixing is more common now in the First series of boats. I personally don't know of glue-only boats that have had a problem with the attachment. I assume glue is spread on areas prescribed by a jig that also aligns the grid. The notion that 'beneteau doesn't know how much is touching' is true I suppose because you can's 'see' the area when the grid is lowered. But I'd be surprised if there is a systemic problem with that process.

I'm not surprised , they know about the problem and refuse to talk about it , or offer any support on how to fix it.
I guess they are scared of a law
suit . There are members on this form that have had this repair done and contacted me via private message. My boat was repaired by a custom yacht builder .I inspected it during the repair ,he showed me the cut out pans. They put a 1 inch wide bead of glue around the outside of the pan that is to glue to the hull. Dime sized bits actually touched the hull ,some of the pans 80% of the glue never touched the hull. The same for the others that had the repair done.
Because all of the pan is now glassed to the hull , the yacht builder and I agree my boat is 10 times stronger than when it left the factory. The only place that the matrix is glassed to the hull is on the sides where the chain plates attach.
If people want to take a chance and rely on dime size bits of glue touching on an ocean crossing, hey all I can say is best of luck. Don't get me wrong I love my boat ,but myself and others weren't impressed with a 20,000 to 30,000 bill for the repair.

BigEasy · Feb 8, 2019

Was the pan adhesion problem specific to the 351 and that vintage?
Was the problem corrected in later years?

Would a Oceanis 393 be strong enough for circumnavigating?

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