Catalinas rule

Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
There's that wing keel thing again. If they really were that bad, how is it that there are so many of them still floating?
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Scott I was on a new 38 in Annapolis. I am certain that Sue would find it Gorgeous!

2 Stateroom Cabins. Great cockpit. All the trimmings and AC.

Tried to get them to swap Straight across form my Vintage CAL, but they were holding out for someone on the East Coast.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
BUT but but... With a Wing Keel do you really know you are pointing OK? Maybe against dagger board or center board boats of the same size. Maybe against other wing keeled boats...
What about a deep fin keel Catalina 310 boat, with hank on jib in moderate breeze. Can you out point that fella?
 

Tom J

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Sep 30, 2008
2,301
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
Great resource! So it appears the 310 is made for comfort in the bow and the 320 is made for comfort in the aft cabin. Me climbing over Sue in the middle of the night to get out is not good and she won't take the aft-most location in any circumstance. But separate berths for sleeping may work best for us anyway. I wonder if the cockpit hatches leak or otherwise a problem. Headroom in 320 is a big plus for me … 6'-0" doesn't quite make it comfortable enough.

I can't tell if there is any difference in the cockpit layouts regarding sail controls. They look very similar. PHRF numbers seem to be pretty similar comparatively speaking, with lower numbers for 320 understandable due to the LWL increase. Sailing performance must be very similar despite cabin differences. All of the dimensional characteristics seem to be relatively the same. They both seem to carry the same engine? Fuel and water storage very similar.
I've never had a leak in the cockpit hatch. A small leak in the foredeck hatch was fixed with new gaskets for the hinges.
Crawling into the aft cabin is not for the athletically challenged, such as us old people. Our C310 has the aft cabin, but it is barebones compared to the C320. When the Admiral and I saw the "walk around" berth in the C310, with the real mattress, we were sold.
I believe the cockpits are similar. Ours has so much room, and we spend so much time there, that we don't mind the smaller saloon on the C310.
 
Nov 1, 2017
635
Catalina 25 Sea Star Base Galveston, TX
Can you out point that fella?
No way. My Cat25 points higher than a Hunter 34 with a wing keel. My best friend owns a Capri 16.2, which, oddly, has a wing keel on it. The thing is fast on a beam/close reach, but upwind it isn't the best.
 
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Tom J

.
Sep 30, 2008
2,301
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
BUT but but... With a Wing Keel do you really know you are pointing OK? Maybe against dagger board or center board boats of the same size. Maybe against other wing keeled boats...
What about a deep fin keel Catalina 310 boat, with hank on jib in moderate breeze. Can you out point that fella?
Probably not. BUT,...I don't care. We cruise, often in skinny water, and have never raced.
 
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Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
What about a deep fin keel Catalina 310 boat, with hank on jib in moderate breeze. Can you out point that fella?
Out point or out sail? Not that it matters, my boat sits almost 5' lower at the waterline on the trailer than a 28 here. It's the difference between launching and retrieving from the trailer and needing to get in line for the crane. There's a c&c that I'll never keep up with, everybody else is fair game. :)
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
With my shoal draft and the genoa fairleads on the outside rail, pointing is definitely not so good. All I have to do is glance at the GPS trail to confirm that. It seems that just about all of the Catalinas sold in our neck of the woods have a wing keel, and I wasn't so enthused at first. I always thought highly of Catalinas but I had this negative thing about the wing keels. The other thing that bothered me was the reported difficulty when you do go aground. Heeling just makes matters worse. All things considered, I realize that I don't need to be a performance snob and if everybody else can deal with wing keels and grounding difficulties, I suppose I can, too! Finally, sailing with Ward on his boat with wing keel, has dispelled all of my negative notions. Catalinas with wing keels are back in my good favor. :biggrin:
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Our C310 has the aft cabin, but it is barebones compared to the C320. When the Admiral and I saw the "walk around" berth in the C310, with the real mattress, we were sold.
I believe the cockpits are similar. Ours has so much room, and we spend so much time there, that we don't mind the smaller saloon on the C310.
I think we would have to look at both to decide. The real bed in the 310 seems to be a great feature. Sue is claustrophobic and there is no way she would sleep in the aft berth on 310. She might sleep in the aft berth of the 320 but definitely not with me! :( She won't sleep in our v-berth but our saloon berth is perfect for her, if not just a bit of a nuisance. I'll use it, too, instead of the v-berth when I'm alone so we're used to pulling it out and setting up a mattress with memory foam.

The cockpit is where we really suffer. Ours is so small that it is really just suitable for 1 person. When we anchor and we are both trying to relax in the cockpit, we almost feel paralyzed. It's a problem.
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
That’s good. I think the guiding principle is not to put the keel in the dirt, irrespective of the design :).
There’s lots of ways, including phrf to account for perceived deficiencies. Keel design seems to get way more attention than maybe some other speed robbing things, and even if you don’t race, making good headway is somewhat important.
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
Gerry has stated repeatedly that cockpit design is way up on the list. Even on the smallest version of the xx0 design stream, the 270, has enough space to comfortably stretch out on and have a snooze. It’s a fairly regular occurrence :)
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Gerry has stated repeatedly that cockpit design is way up on the list. Even on the smallest version of the xx0 design stream, the 270, has enough space to comfortably stretch out on and have a snooze. It’s a fairly regular occurrence :)
I'm fine with the cockpit when I'm alone. I can move the traveler/mainsheet out of the way and stretch out in 2 directions. The problem is when there are 2. Then, the traveler/mainsheet is in somebody's face and there isn't enough room in the footwell when 1 person wants to get up and do something. Then there is the wheel. Also, the opening through the pushpit is too narrow to accommodate a decent ladder … something wide enough for my hips when I'm sitting on the stern trying to put my flippers on!

Also, the bimini is too low, making matters worse! We are definitely seeking more comfort, which seems to require more room!
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
I'm fine with the cockpit when I'm alone. I can move the traveler/mainsheet out of the way and stretch out in 2 directions. The problem is when there are 2. Then, the traveler/mainsheet is in somebody's face and there isn't enough room in the footwell when 1 person wants to get up and do something. Then there is the wheel. Also, the opening through the pushpit is too narrow to accommodate a decent ladder … something wide enough for my hips when I'm sitting on the stern trying to put my flippers on!

Also, the bimini is too low, making matters worse! We are definitely seeking more comfort, which seems to require more room!
Nope, nope, nope.
Traveler is on the coachroof, mainsheet is up there too. The wheel is an issue on any boat, and we installed a folding one, mostly because I like a big one, and sitting on the coaming and being able to drive is very cool, and the walk through transom is fabulous compared to some boats that you get to climb over the rail. What boat are you using this as a reference to?
 

Tom J

.
Sep 30, 2008
2,301
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
With my shoal draft and the genoa fairleads on the outside rail, pointing is definitely not so good. All I have to do is glance at the GPS trail to confirm that. It seems that just about all of the Catalinas sold in our neck of the woods have a wing keel, and I wasn't so enthused at first. I always thought highly of Catalinas but I had this negative thing about the wing keels. The other thing that bothered me was the reported difficulty when you do go aground. Heeling just makes matters worse. All things considered, I realize that I don't need to be a performance snob and if everybody else can deal with wing keels and grounding difficulties, I suppose I can, too! Finally, sailing with Ward on his boat with wing keel, has dispelled all of my negative notions. Catalinas with wing keels are back in my good favor. :biggrin:
Actually, we used heeling to get unstuck a couple of times. Once, with the wind on the beam, we deployed the genoa, heeled over and got underway.
Then again, like you have heard, the wing keel can become a mushroom anchor. We got stuck deep in the mud one time, and a passing gentleman in an outboard offered to carry our anchor to deeper water. We were then able to kedge out to mid channel and resume our trip.
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Scott,

The differences between the 310 and 320 are numerous. Starting with the cockpit, the 310 is rounded with benches long enough to sleep on while the 320 is T shaped with shorter benches. We have played CAH with 12 people in our cockpit. Out cruising we are typically the first choice for drinks when no catamarans are in the group even though we are typically more than 5 feet shorter than most boats. The Genny winches on the 310 are next to the helm, great for single handing. Not so for the 320, you have to come forward of the helm to use the winches. But the 320 does have more space in the laz. The table on the 310 is also much better for eating and hosting.

Down below the difference are even more appearant. Our salone is smaller at the expense of a bigger master berth. Personally I find the 310 to be far more livable than the 320 and far easier to short hand sail. But we are biased and have about 20K NM on ours and have been living on her for about 6 years.

Fair winds,

Jesse
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Frankly, I do not know if a "deep fin keel Catalina 310 boat, with hank on jib" even exists.
Reality is if you want to point the highest you buy a boat with high point capabilities. If you want to sail in skinny water you buy a boat that accommodates skinny water. Certainly the wing keel is a compromise that allows the boat owner to sail in skinnier water than a deep fin keeled boat. All boat designs are a compromise. What excites me is that we can all take our boats to interesting places and when we get there does it really matter if mine is a CAL and yours is a Catalina?
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Traveler is on the coachroof, mainsheet is up there too. The wheel is an issue on any boat, and we installed a folding one, mostly because I like a big one, and sitting on the coaming and being able to drive is very cool, and the walk through transom is fabulous compared to some boats that you get to climb over the rail. What boat are you using this as a reference to?
You might be misunderstanding … I'm talking about our Starwind 27. It's a boat that is very well-suited for me sailing and anchoring out solo. The difficulties arise when we are a couple anchoring out. Hence, the interest in a boat that is better suited for Sue and I together.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Scott,

The differences between the 310 and 320 are numerous. Starting with the cockpit, the 310 is rounded with benches long enough to sleep on while the 320 is T shaped with shorter benches. We have played CAH with 12 people in our cockpit. Out cruising we are typically the first choice for drinks when no catamarans are in the group even though we are typically more than 5 feet shorter than most boats. The Genny winches on the 310 are next to the helm, great for single handing. Not so for the 320, you have to come forward of the helm to use the winches. But the 320 does have more space in the laz. The table on the 310 is also much better for eating and hosting.

Down below the difference are even more appearant. Our salone is smaller at the expense of a bigger master berth. Personally I find the 310 to be far more livable than the 320 and far easier to short hand sail. But we are biased and have about 20K NM on ours and have been living on her for about 6 years.

Fair winds,

Jesse
That's very interesting about the cockpit. What Sue loves about our dock neighbor's Hunter 310 is the spacious, round cockpit. It essentially has no sail controls to get in her way of enjoying the space! Would you say that the C310 cockpit is similar? I realize it doesn't have the arch, as the Hunter does, but if the spaciousness is similar, that's a big plus. It's closer to our style of sailing to have the winches closer to the helm.