Transmission Identification

[Smunkey]

Please forgive me if my search skills were not strong enough, but I do not seem to be able to find any information regarding how to identify what type of transmission I have.

I have a 1988 Catalina 30 TR/BS. Hull #5167. It has a Universal M-25XP engine. I have concluded that the most likely transmission is a Hurth HBW50. I know it is a Hurth because the name is built right into the side of it. I am just not exactly sure which model I have, or how to figure that out.

I am having that issue where reverse works, but forward does not. After putting in into forward gear, eventually it may or may not click into gear. This even happens when I move the shift lever manually by hand with the cable disconnected, so I know the cable is not the issue. I checked the fluid and it was high (at least half way up the dipstick... PO). I removed the old fluid and put in the correct amount of new fluid and of course it did not help. The old fluid did not appear dark or burnt or have particles in it though.

I am OK with buying a new transmission at this point, and I may even attempt to install it myself, but I sort of need to know exactly what to buy before spend any money. I will attach pictures for reference.

Any help accurately identifying this transmission would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kloudie1]

I suspect that there used to be a data tag on the semi-unpainted top flat just above the shift shaft.. If ya lucky, it may be hiding in the bilge under the engine/transmission..
Problem may be bad forward clutch friction plate(s) ; parts 51, 52.. and or the actuation ball and springs..
http://marinetransmissions.info/uploads/HBW_internal.JPG

 

[jviss]

I looked at some HBW-50's, a.k.a., ZF 5M, on ebay, and the housing looks like that's the one.

Have you called Catalina and asked? Or even Catalinadirect?

These things are very expensive, new. If you have a clutch issue, it's probably rebuildable, for much less money.

 

[Smunkey]

Thanks, I looked all over for the tag because I have seen pictures of Hurth transmissions with one there. That spot on mine is where I knocked some of the paint off hoping it was under there. I notice that in the link you posted, that the diagram is for 8 different models. I was hoping that the different models perhaps had some sort of external difference. I guess I need to find a model comparison chart and see if maybe some dimensions are different.

That diagram makes it look super easy to replace the plates hahaha. I would bet a case of beer it isn't.

 

[Smunkey]

Thanks jviss, I will reach out to both and see what I can learn. From what I gather though, the engine has to be lifted up or removed, because it is bolted to the inside of the bell housing on this specific engine/transmission combination. This being the case, the theory is that once you have it to that point, you are only a few hundreds bucks difference between a new one and a rebuild. And the companion theory then is that you are better off with a new one because it is 30 years old, and something else will invariably fail simply from age.

 

[jviss]

I understand that, Smunkey, but I thought the difference between a rebuild and new was more like $1,500! I wish you luck. I had the engine out of my C36, and the bell housing off to replace a broken damper plate bolt. I understand it may be tougher to pull the engine on the C30 than the C36. But yes, given the time and trouble and associated expense, maybe new is the way to go.

 

[Ward H]

Smunkey,
On my M25XP the engine tag is on the top of the manifold. The transmission model is stamped on the tag after the engine model.
Might want to check there.

 

[Smunkey]

Smunkey,
On my M25XP the engine tag is on the top of the manifold. The transmission model is stamped on the tag after the engine model.
Might want to check there.

Only thing on mine is the engine model and serial number. I have reached out to Catalina and they directed me to Universal (Westerbeke). They said they did not keep good records back then but that Westerbeke kept very meticulous records and should be able to tell me all about the transmission based on the engine serial number. I have reached out to Westerbeke but it was just a few hours ago.

In terms of my issue, Catalina recommended having a marine tech diagnose the issue and then kind of work from there. From all the research I have done though, sounds like a rebuild or replace mission at this point. My goal is to do all my own work, because when we go full time, we want to be able to fix everything possible. Worst case, I completely destroy it somehow, have the marina fix it anyway, and learn some valuable lessons.

By the way, thanks to everyone who has replied. At the risk of sounding weird, I sometimes spend 8 hours a day just reading this forum. The information is priceless.

 

[Ward H]

My plate is a smaller metal stamped plate. Hope you have luck with Westerbeke.

 

[Smunkey]

Westerbeke said they didn't have records that old either but they did tell me to assume it was a Hurth HBW50. So I did. Found a rebuilt one on eBay, and then, as complete amateurs with no marine diesel experience, my gal and I were able to remove the engine and do the switch out. Thanks to all the information on this site, the engine started right back up afterwards and the transmissions works beautifully now. The only issue we had the whole time was a busted zinc in the heat exchanger, and I suspect it had been that way a while. Quick easy fix.

So huge thanks to everyone who shares information here.

 

[Ward H]

At the risk of sounding weird, I sometimes spend 8 hours a day just reading this forum. The information is priceless.

Not weird at all. I spent weeks reading every single thread on the Catalina 30 forum. I wake up in the middle of the night and read threads on the Musings from Maine Sail forum. (I'm on page 41).

I'm glad to hear you got the rebuilt tranny in and working well. One of the many reasons I went with the C30 was the ease of working on the engine/tranny.
Nice!