News flash: cool fast boats sell.

Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Along with a line of pure race boats and 4 other ‘cruisers’ between 30 and 50 feet, little Structures Pogo in France cranks out a new Pogo 36 every 3 three weeks. The backlog for the €250k boat is over 3 years. J/boats is also doing well enough. Why can’t other American builders figure out this code? The world has enough tubby cruisers that can’t get out of their own way. Performance sells.


CC46A0BD-44F8-458F-9F44-804D9CDC3B9C.jpeg
 
Feb 20, 2011
7,992
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Why can’t other American builders figure out this code?
Just spitballin' here. What does labor cost in the EU?

How much of a lock does Jboats have on the racing circuit?
 
Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
"Tubby cruisers that can't get out of their own way"? - Jackdaw, 10/1/17 Sending insults to cruisers worldwide.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
"Tubby cruisers that can't get out of their own way"? - Jackdaw, 10/1/17 Sending insults to cruisers worldwide.
Chill out. Not quite. Its an indictment on the builders, who design a boat exactly like the one it sold for 10 years, and then wonder why they sell TWO of the news ones.

I notice you sail a 30+ year old boat. Why haven't YOU bought a new one?? Point made.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Just spitballin' here. What does labor cost in the EU?

How much of a lock does Jboats have on the racing circuit?
EU production costs? More, not less. J-boats race boats do well, but its their performance cruisers that really make the bulk of their business.
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,772
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Just spitballin' here. What does labor cost in the EU?
Wages in the EU are considerably higher than in the US, often with better hours and job security, but taxes are much higher. As their higher education is generally free, it's a much better system than the US, because a new graduate there doesn't start their working life with a massive debt and few prospects.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
"Tubby cruisers that can't get out of their own way"? - Jackdaw, 10/1/17 Sending insults to cruisers worldwide.
To be more clear, the reason for this point is that it takes A LOT for someone to buy a new boat, in particular if they are pretty happy with their current one. What would make someone buy a new 35 foot cruiser if they like their current one? A new cabin layout? No. A traveler on an arch? No.

One that planes off the wind at at easy 14 knots? Maybe.
 
Nov 13, 2013
723
Catalina 34 Tacoma
Along with a line of pure race boats and 4 other ‘cruisers’ between 30 and 50 feet, little Structures Pogo in France cranks out a new Pogo 36 every 3 three weeks. The backlog for the €250k boat is over 3 years. J/boats is also doing well enough. Why can’t other American builders figure out this code? The world has enough tubby cruisers that can’t get out of their own way. Performance sells.


View attachment 141389
There's always a market for something newer and faster. In this case, size matters when you consider the capital expenditures required to capture a small share of a small share.
 
Nov 30, 2015
1,337
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
Because I cannot afford a new (or used) boat anymore. Point returned.
Yeah, there's a lot of us in that same boat...no pun intended. I'm afraid a new boat will never be in my future. I'm also doing everything in my power to prove that Sailing is not a rich man's activity/sport. My 39 year old ship, although heavy and tubby is one of the most exhilarating, yet stable, rides I could have imagined under decent breeze. I don't see us racing around three silly marks, when our five hour tours look like this. We work hard for an enjoyable excursion, no need for bragging rights, or faster, or newer, boat here.

Best Regards...season ends soon up here!

IMG_1482.JPG
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Yeah, there's a lot of us in that same boat...no pun intended. I'm afraid a new boat will never be in my future. I'm also doing everything in my power to prove that Sailing is not a rich man's activity/sport. My 39 year old ship, although heavy and tubby is one of the most exhilarating, yet stable, rides I could have imagined under decent breeze. I don't see us racing around three silly marks, when our five hour tours look like this. We work hard for an enjoyable excursion, no need for bragging rights, or faster, or newer, boat here.

Best Regards...season ends soon up here!

View attachment 141397
For sure. I totally get that. But if we accept that boat builders have to sell new boats to stay in business, someone has to buy them. The trick then is what will get people in the position to buy to do exactly that?
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
There's always a market for something newer and faster. In this case, size matters when you consider the capital expenditures required to capture a small share of a small share.
True point. But I’m not sure it applies here. I think that Hunter would die for a new boat with a 2 year order book that they could crank out an example every three weeks.
 
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Jan 1, 2006
7,062
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I wonder who the sport boat industry is selling to. I would guess it is the millennials who seem to me to be more attracted to excitement than relaxation. They seem to crave that "Hair on fire" experience. And in some cases have the income to buy it.
Nevertheless around here there are many more J-22's, J-24's, J80's, J105's, J109's than there are J112's, J100's (We had one in our season finale yesterday). I think it does have to do with money. Maybe money and age.
For example, yesterday I sailed on a Tartan 33, which I wouldn't call a tubby cruiser but it is a dated design. The owner owes no money on it, is over 70 years old, bought 1 new sail in the last five years and does reasonably well on Wednesday PM and club level racing, so he is not looking for a sport boat experience. Truthfully he also has trouble attracting crew for Wednesdays since his regular crew of years standing aged out.
My point is that if the sport boat industry is selling a lot of boats, it's not to my friend Bill. Who are they selling to?
Here is a scratch sheet for yesterday's race for prospective:
http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/regatta_uploads/14877/WB24ScratchSheet92617.pdf
 
Nov 30, 2015
1,337
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
For sure. I totally get that. But if we accept that boat builders have to sell new boats to stay in business, someone has to buy them. The trick then is what will get people in the position to buy to do exactly that?
Perhaps a series of hurricanes that induces replacement of all the second and third tier boats we typically charter in the VI's?
 
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Nov 13, 2013
723
Catalina 34 Tacoma
True point. But I’m not sure it applies here. I think that Hunter would die for a new boat with a 2 year order book that they could crank out an example every three weeks.
They would only like a 2 year order book if it was a profitable 2 years. At the 250k euro price, I would surmise the Pogos have a design and craftsmanship level production boats don't have the resources to produce. They would have to buy Pogo to get them.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,398
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
J/Boats and apparently Pogo sell to a very narrow market, those interested in competing at a high level with deep pockets. That's not most of us. Most of us sail older boats that were once competitive and are now affordable.

The boating market is based on discretionary income, supporting a boat is low on the list when compared to food, housing, retirement savings, college savings, etc. Those who can afford a $300K boat are relatively few.

It only took 25 years of inflation, depreciation, and a negligent owner for me to afford the boat I saw in the late 1990s that I fell in love with. And my income was well above the national median income.
 
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Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,136
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Well, the interview you cited on Beneteau was excellent. As I recall, he said the hot market was large monohulls over (50?) feet, multihulls and outboards. This weekend, I went to a SoCal boat show and talked to a couple of very knowledgeable, long term brokers with whom I shared that observation. They agreed. They also said the general sailboat market was weak but that euro-style power cruisers and big outboards are good. Incidentally, the interested traffic seemed to bear that out (new boats). Beneteau and it's sister Jeanneau were just about the only (new) sailboats represented. I think there was one Fast series.
There is an article in the new Boat US magazine concerning (yet again) Millennials that makes for some interesting reading. For many years, I nagged Hunter to have a performance package. They tried it out on the 27. A demo here in SoCal did very will in local regattas. But there was no real market.
I think a manufacturer has to figure out how to make money on limited runs, how to apply sponsorship, and promote performance boats to fleets and clubs. But...what do I know? http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2017/october/why-arent-millennials-buying-boats.asp
 
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Jan 5, 2017
2,265
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
Maybe it's just old age, set in my ways thinking but I wouldn't have one of those new boats even if I could afford it. Looks to me like someone beat them with a big "UGLY STICK". Give me a B-40 etc. any day of the week. I think new concept power boats are even worse.
 
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Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
I think not everyone will compromise comfort and spend for speed. I would, but it still needs to be in my price range. I cannot afford a new boat, unless it is a jon-boat! But I can refurbish a better boat. Problem is that there are not a lot of high performance, older boats. Til these planing, 36ft monohulls age a little, I won’t be getting one.
I probably know 2 or 3 people who could buy a new one. They aren’t sailors.
I would buy a new Pogo in a second, as the comforts are not as important to me. It is a gas when you get your sailboat going 14 mph! It is less relaxing though... but then that is when we reef.
 
Jan 22, 2008
764
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
J/Boats and apparently Pogo sell to a very narrow market, those interested in competing at a high level with deep pockets. That's not most of us. Most of us sail older boats that were once competitive and are now affordable.

The boating market is based on discretionary income, supporting a boat is low on the list when compared to food, housing, retirement savings, college savings, etc. Those who can afford a $300K boat are relatively few.

It only took 25 years of inflation, depreciation, and a negligent owner for me to afford the boat I saw in the late 1990s that I fell in love with. And my income was well above the national median income.
I agree completely, I would love to go on an afternoon 15 knot reach on a Pogo or J100 with a full competant crew and $50,000 worth of sails. But, I also like what I got, my $50,000 boat that me and my girlfriend can take out any Saturday for great sunset sail and enter the occasional casual race. And still look forward to retiring with the same lifestyle that includes lots of travel and spoiling grandkids.
I hope they keep making and selling lots of cutting edge performance boats, I love looking at them, but I don’t think they’ll sell a lot of them to the people on this forum.
 
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