I recently purchased a 1981 22. I have a lot of styrofoam in the hull under cockpit and several insde each setee. The PO said it had some when he bought it and even added more! It takes up space that I could use especially in the salon. Do I need to keep it?
Styrofoam in hull
- Thread starter Capri
- Start date
The foam is there for buoyancy in case your boat takes on water. It's up to you whether to keep it, supplement it, or get rid of it.
Yes, in the event of a swamping, the foam is supposed to keep the boat floating, but floating awash. Easier to retrieve versus sinking to the bottom. Keep in mind for rough conditions, if your lazarette locker goes through to the inside of the boat, in the event of a knockdown, the hatch may slow but not prevent water getting into the cabin. My 192 is pretty good about the lid coming right down on the locker coaming. Other boats, like the Precision 18 and possibly others from the Precision line, the lid does not mate with the coaming lip underneath. Also, sailing in rough conditions, you should consider sailing with drop boards in and hatch closed.
I normally don't worry much about heeling until the toe rail gets wet on occasion. In the fall we often get very variable, gusty NW winds, such that there is a BIG lift with gust when beating up the lake. One time, I hit a big gust, with that lifting shift, so that I was instantly over trimmed and very over powered. I went beyond the normal "toe rail washing" and kept right on going, until I had water pouring over my (admittedly low) cockpit coaming. Man, I felt I was sitting up SOOOOO high on the high side, I was heeling that much. Not sure whether I heeled enough to break the rudder free and round up, or if by that time I realized this was beyond a "toe rail washing" gust, and the boat had started to respond to my heading up. Regardless, I was like "Ummm... that was not very good. I shouldn't do that again!" It was late afternoon, so I called it a day and started to head in. What I SHOULD have done was immediately put in the drop boards, Just In Case™.
That was a somewhat well controlled situation. A few years ago in April down near Annapolis, a Precision 18 went out with 4 people. It sunk. We surmise a combination of knock down (I remember the weekend was quite windy,) boat filling through lazarette hatch, people hanging on to the swamping boat pulling it further over, and cold water, lead to not all 4 people coming home. It was a sad story.
I normally don't worry much about heeling until the toe rail gets wet on occasion. In the fall we often get very variable, gusty NW winds, such that there is a BIG lift with gust when beating up the lake. One time, I hit a big gust, with that lifting shift, so that I was instantly over trimmed and very over powered. I went beyond the normal "toe rail washing" and kept right on going, until I had water pouring over my (admittedly low) cockpit coaming. Man, I felt I was sitting up SOOOOO high on the high side, I was heeling that much. Not sure whether I heeled enough to break the rudder free and round up, or if by that time I realized this was beyond a "toe rail washing" gust, and the boat had started to respond to my heading up. Regardless, I was like "Ummm... that was not very good. I shouldn't do that again!" It was late afternoon, so I called it a day and started to head in. What I SHOULD have done was immediately put in the drop boards, Just In Case™.
That was a somewhat well controlled situation. A few years ago in April down near Annapolis, a Precision 18 went out with 4 people. It sunk. We surmise a combination of knock down (I remember the weekend was quite windy,) boat filling through lazarette hatch, people hanging on to the swamping boat pulling it further over, and cold water, lead to not all 4 people coming home. It was a sad story.
[QUOTE...I was like "Ummm... that was not very good. I shouldn't do that again!" It was late afternoon, so I called it a day QUOTE]
Sometimes, learning what to do involves learning what NOT to do. "Experience": learning what you need to know AFTER needing to know it.
Sometimes, learning what to do involves learning what NOT to do. "Experience": learning what you need to know AFTER needing to know it.
Was the boat originally built with the foam? If not, why have it? Plenty of boats get knocked down. They don't sink. Is there some known issue with Oday 22s sinking easily on knockdown? I think we worry about the outlying possibilities rather than simply living with some of the rare possibilities. If you are afraid of getting knocked down, reef and keep your crib boards in place during sailing. Reef early.
Also, trust your keel. Oday is not a poorly designed boat. I would much rather have the Oday 22 keel/cbrd than the C22 swing keel, yet I never felt the need to add foam to my C22.
Are you sailing in especially rough conditions that require these special accomodations? No? I wouldn't modify the boat to accomodate them.
Also, trust your keel. Oday is not a poorly designed boat. I would much rather have the Oday 22 keel/cbrd than the C22 swing keel, yet I never felt the need to add foam to my C22.
Are you sailing in especially rough conditions that require these special accomodations? No? I wouldn't modify the boat to accomodate them.
I learned and sailed centerboard/daggerboard dinghies (smaller, unballasted) until I moved up to the stub ballasted keel 192.
The hardest thing I learned to do the first season was to "trust the keel." Jeepers, for every puff, I was jumping like I might have to uncleat the main and dump some sail. Or round up. Took me a while to learn to hang onto the tiller, ride out the puff, and occasionally "wash the toe rail."
Rounding up, losing the rudder and heading up, is the sailboat acting according to design and physics. It is what should happen.
Likewise, a knock-down is not lethal. Without a wave to push you past a lay-down into a capsize, the boat will right itself. That wave action is not going to happen on a small to medium lake. I have seen boats layed down on Seneca. Even in 3 ft swells or rollers, they right themselves.
In each case, rounding up or knock-down, the sails stop working, and the boat recovers. Boats far bigger, more powerful, and more expensive have no floatations.
Keep your crib boards in and reef if you feel uncertain.
As Brian said, ride it out! It becomes a thrill after a while.
I remember when I sailed a Laser. I would purposely heel that thing as far as possible and then sail it within inches of shore. I must have been bored!
Likewise, a knock-down is not lethal. Without a wave to push you past a lay-down into a capsize, the boat will right itself. That wave action is not going to happen on a small to medium lake. I have seen boats layed down on Seneca. Even in 3 ft swells or rollers, they right themselves.
In each case, rounding up or knock-down, the sails stop working, and the boat recovers. Boats far bigger, more powerful, and more expensive have no floatations.
Keep your crib boards in and reef if you feel uncertain.
As Brian said, ride it out! It becomes a thrill after a while.
I remember when I sailed a Laser. I would purposely heel that thing as far as possible and then sail it within inches of shore. I must have been bored!
You guys are a trip. Had me chuckling. This is the type of feedback I was looking for. Have a great weekend.
I do not recall the OD-22 being advertised as having positive foam floatation. Anyone have a brochure handy?
Not many boats have this feature because it does reduce interior storage.
We did own a Ranger 20 in the late 70's and it has positive flotation, and was designed for that by NA Ray Richards.
Note that this is not a matter of just stuffing some foam into a space somewhere on the boat -- it is calculated for both forward and aft buoyancy and accounts for XX pounds of outboard hanging on the standard stern mount. It will reduce storage some, but the tradeoff can be peace of mind.
You need to do some research into what and where such foam would benefit your boat. Unless you plan on broaching under spinnaker on 20 kt days - with no hatch boards secured closed -..... it's probably not worth the hassle. (This scenario has caused a sinking of a Sant. 20 and a "what were they thinking" SJ-23 in our sailing area over the last 20 years.)
Caution and due diligence is a good thing, but only within reason.
Fair winds,
Loren
Not many boats have this feature because it does reduce interior storage.
We did own a Ranger 20 in the late 70's and it has positive flotation, and was designed for that by NA Ray Richards.
Note that this is not a matter of just stuffing some foam into a space somewhere on the boat -- it is calculated for both forward and aft buoyancy and accounts for XX pounds of outboard hanging on the standard stern mount. It will reduce storage some, but the tradeoff can be peace of mind.
You need to do some research into what and where such foam would benefit your boat. Unless you plan on broaching under spinnaker on 20 kt days - with no hatch boards secured closed -..... it's probably not worth the hassle. (This scenario has caused a sinking of a Sant. 20 and a "what were they thinking" SJ-23 in our sailing area over the last 20 years.)
Caution and due diligence is a good thing, but only within reason.
Fair winds,
Loren
I have several O'DAY 22 Brochures, I've pasted the Safety part of the Standard equipment list for 1978. I checked my other brochures, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, and 1981 all list "Positive foam Flotation" as a standard feature. Interesting, 1981 lists it as only being under the V-Berth, I guess if one of those models swamped she would float bow up?
Personally, I have mixed feelings about flotation on a cruising boat like an O'DAY 22, nice to know that if she sprung a leak, she won't sink out from under me....... but, how much stowage is lost to flotation? Probably not enough to really matter (under cockpit foot well is not overly useful stowage anyway, would like to have some stowage under V-Berth, but if foam doesn't take up all the volume there, some items can still be stowed if access available.
Personally, I have mixed feelings about flotation on a cruising boat like an O'DAY 22, nice to know that if she sprung a leak, she won't sink out from under me....... but, how much stowage is lost to flotation? Probably not enough to really matter (under cockpit foot well is not overly useful stowage anyway, would like to have some stowage under V-Berth, but if foam doesn't take up all the volume there, some items can still be stowed if access available.
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I own a 75 oday 22, my vbirth does not have access for storage. i am assuming that its all foam blocks in there? i was planning on removing the plywood that is screwed down with painted over screws , (thats what is stopping me) and remove all foam , to make storage for other items. i dont have any concerns what so ever about sinking. as i will not be in blue waters , i will be coastal only. and or small lakes . if i do i will have a trusty dingy on board.i was also thinking on making a anchor locker in bow.
You are concerned about painted over screws yet you are not concerned about sinking cause you sail along the coast?
By all means go for it on the screws.
Remove all the foam.
Keep your the boat insurance premiums current.
Avoid being inspected by the Canadian Coast Guard.
Ever hear of the Edmond Fitzgerald? Wasn’t she just off your coast in Canadian Coastal waters, nearly making Whitefish Bay when she disappeared?
The foam is inserted in boats because, by law, the manufacturer must assure the owner that the boat, if filled with water, will stay afloat long enough that anyone on the boat will be able to hold on to the boat even full of water. Are all boats maintained this way… No. Owners do strange things to their boat’s.
Most small boats are capable of staying afloat long enough for the crew to be rescued.
Good luck.
i am not concerned over painted screws, dont know why you even said that, i said thats what was stopping me from removing anything. i also read that sailboats are exempt from this foam bit. there are alot of people that dont have foam, and will not install it either, but yet your jumping on me for it. ?
In 1977, the Coast Guard established flotation requirements for boats less than 20 feet in length,.
This USCG Boatbuilders Handbook says foam is required but sailboats are exempt
https://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/assets/builders-handbook/FLOTATION.pdf
https://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/assets/builders-handbook/FLOTATION.pdf
I read your statement. I posted a copy of the statement.
I can see no reason for paint on screws to stop an owner determined to open up a space. I intended that as encouragement to go forward and access the space.
With regard to your lack of concern regarding sinking.
I was attempting to point out, perhaps crudely, that there is no difference in risk between being 20 miles off shore in an ocean and 500 yards off shore in a lake. If your boat goes down under your feet and you are left alone to find your way to shore, you can drown just as easily. If you are with a crew, as the boat owner their safety is your responsibility. If you have removed floatation and it is determined that the lack of boat flotation contributed to the cause of death for you or your crew, then you will be held responsible.
If such practical talk offends you, I let me say I am sorry I shared a comment to your query.
I will not encourage a sailor to venture out on the water who willingly is reducing the safety feature provided with a boat.
The beauty of this boating world it is your boat and you get the make the decision. You also can ignore everything I have shared. That also is your choice. I will not loose any sleep over being ignored.
Safe boating.
I can see no reason for paint on screws to stop an owner determined to open up a space. I intended that as encouragement to go forward and access the space.
“i was planning on removing the plywood that is screwed down with painted over screws , (thats what is stopping me) “
With regard to your lack of concern regarding sinking.
“i dont have any concerns what so ever about sinking. “
I was attempting to point out, perhaps crudely, that there is no difference in risk between being 20 miles off shore in an ocean and 500 yards off shore in a lake. If your boat goes down under your feet and you are left alone to find your way to shore, you can drown just as easily. If you are with a crew, as the boat owner their safety is your responsibility. If you have removed floatation and it is determined that the lack of boat flotation contributed to the cause of death for you or your crew, then you will be held responsible.
If such practical talk offends you, I let me say I am sorry I shared a comment to your query.
I will not encourage a sailor to venture out on the water who willingly is reducing the safety feature provided with a boat.
The beauty of this boating world it is your boat and you get the make the decision. You also can ignore everything I have shared. That also is your choice. I will not loose any sleep over being ignored.
Safe boating.
the way i see it, no boat , no matter if you have flotation or not. if it is gonna sink its gonna. if there is air in the cabin it should still give ample time. if not then plan b, have a dinghy on board at all times. or a inflatable life raft. in my case 22ft sailer, i wont be in the ocean and i have faith in my boat. not sure what you have, probly an expensive as hell boat and ample storage and alot bigger then mine. i could probly open up my sole, and throw some bloacks in there. but why wreck it. if its gonna go its goin ..... life raft equalls plenty of leaway for rescue.