Tiller vs. wheel steering on 34-40 ft boats

[centerline]

we looked at few used boats today in the 34-36 ft range..... 2 cals, 2 hunters, and a tartan

one had a tiller and had a nice open cockpit. loved it.

the others all had wheels that seemed to be too far back, so a person couldnt get their heels far enough back to be able to stand comfortably at the helm, although a sitting position would be fine.... one of the hunters was open to the back, with the steps falling away right behind the helm station which seemed like a tripping hazard.

my wife and I both disliked the amount of room taken by the wheel steering pedestal.

so what are the advantages of wheel steering that make them the predominant helm style, and how hard is it to convert one to a tiller if desired?

 

[higgs]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

Underway, I much prefer the wheel as you don't have to ask everyone to get up and move every time you tack. Also, the pedestal is not is the flow of traffic underway. It is also a good place for cup holders and other gear. When steering, most people do not steer from behind the wheel except in the harbor. Most sit on one side or the other, so it is nice to have a wheel large enough to comfortably reach from aside. At anchor, they do get in the way a bit, but some can easily be removed and stored on a stanchion. You do get a better feel of the boat with a tiller. I have sailed more years with a tiller, but for my purposes, I much prefer the wheel.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

Try looking at a Catalina 34.

 

[Steve Dion]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

I do not think the cockpit will look very big one you start sailing and tacking.

Tillers are great for racing boats that size but they suck for this size cruising boats.

 

[FastOlson]

Here we go again

Hmmm.... not too bad. Only four posts before the "R" word was invoked to justify or deride the steering means for a sailboat.
(sigh)

If it were only that simple...


Good reasons for either system on boats sized per the OP's question.

Loren

 

[kentobin]

IMHO it's all a matter of taste. I know someone who removed the wheel on a 41 foot Hans Christian and put in a tiller. Everyone, including me, thought he was overdoing it a bit. I like tillers more as I always know my rudder position without thinking or needing another gauge.

Tillers also do have some drawbacks. A standard off the shelf autopilot designed for a 10+ ton boat can be much harder to install on a tiller and will quite possibly be a custom design. I'm also envious that the pedestal of a wheel is a really nice place to hang all your instruments.

Just remember you didn't pay for this advice.

 

[Jackdaw]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

Wheels came onto prominence on bigger boats before balanced rudders came into being. When rudders were hung from skegs, the un-balanced nature made the mechanical advantage of a wheel nessessary unless the tiller was huge. After a while, US consumers took wheels to mean 'big boat' and that still holds. Balanced spade rudders now mean that even bigger boats can have very light feel on their tiller helms.

We sailed a 40-foot Pogo 12.5 with a tiller and balanced rudders this year and it was amazing. In Europe is is very common to see boats up to 40+ with tillers. Our First 36.7 only comes with a wheel in the USA, in Europe most are tiller boats.

 

[centerline]

Wheels came onto prominence on bigger boats before balanced rudders came into being. When rudders where hung from skegs, the un-balanced nature made the mechanical advantage of a wheel nessessary unless the tiller was huge. After a while, US consumers took wheels to mean 'big boat' and that still holds. Balanced rudders now mean that even bigger boats can have very light feel on thir helms.

We sailed a 40-foot Pogo 12.5 with a tiller and balanced rudders this year and it was amazing.

I agree... what you said here is exactly what i know about the wheel, and how and why it came to be invented, and as you mention about the balanced modern rudder designs, on modern boats I can see no advantage to a wheel over a tiller other than preference.... more moving parts to jam or wear or break, more space being taken below and above deck, more expensive autopilot to purchase...


I like the feel of a tiller when sailing, and although a wheel may be ok on a large vessel that is wide enough to easily accommodate a pedestal or two without being an inconvenience, but for the very reason I want a bigger boat, the wheel and its accompanying apparatus is taking up too much of it.
I dont want to give up a comfortable cockpit just to own a larger boat, and wont...

 

[All U Get]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

There will come a day when a joystick will be introduced to sailors and the cockpit will suddenly become the size we want it to be.
All U Get

 

[BobM]

Wheel vs. tiller

My primary reason for getting a wheel was back related. I have a bad disc at L5 S1 and cannot sit with my torso rotated in the position required for a tiller. I had a tiller on my last boat and after one three hour sail my back went out and I had a pretty rough time of it. Also, I felt my Wife would be more comfortable at the helm, which I feel is true.

Going backwards from a wheel to a tiller is likely to be pretty boat specific. On mine for example, it would be fairly easy, but I would have to either get a rudder made with a longer post or somehow adapt on an extension to put a tiller head on. I would also lose the aft bench for seating.

As someone else stated, Edson sells a knurled nut and a kit to allow you to easily remove your wheel and mount it to a rail. There are also folding wheels, but they are expensive and incompatible with certain autopilots.

The joystick idea is interesting...but why not just add power steering so the wheel size can drop significantly.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Yeah- I'd really love being anchored somewhere, with the wheel mounted off to the side rail somewhere, and have to get the hell out of the anchorage at 0230.

I'll keep the tiller thank you.

And for me, the "asking every one to move while we tack" argument is not really valid- the tiller usually pivots up way far enough to clear anyone. And while at anchor, or in the slip, it can stand dead upright and be totally out of the way.

Oh and I've sailed a 50 foot schooner with a tiller- admittedly, it was 9 feet long

Now the back related problems are a very valid argument for a wheel though. Otherwise I think it boils down to personal preference.

 

[bawlmer]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

I have owned 2 sailboats. An Irwin 23 with a tiller and my present CAT270 with a wheel. While the tiller is much more salty and you will appear ever more manly wrassling that thing, I guarantee you will tire of it quickly. Also from experience you will have wished you got the one with the wheel on your first longer than a few hours excursion. Just my .02 worth.

 

[Sailm8]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

You might want to consider resale value in the future. A tiller might be a deal breaker for a large segment of the market. Just say'n

 

[2sticks]

Tiller vs. Wheel

Personal preference is gonna dictate nearly all of our gear choices, however some things are lost with a wheel. Several years ago, proudly sailing a tiny pocket cruiser called the Vivacity 20, I routinely could propel the little bilge keeled sloop around an anchorage on a calm evening at approx. 2 kts. by sculling the rudder. I used this ability to take my daughter's Golden Retriever to the dock for emptying. It was silent, almost magic to move at will around a quiet anchorage with only the sculling motion of the tiller. On our current aft cabin ketch, it just isn't possible to fit a tiller so the wheel has to stay. Previous boats ( 8T Willard Cutter, early Alberg Pearson and an old Grampian ) were all tiller steered. When I'm in the engineroom with the pedestal above I can't help but notice the quandrant, sheaves, cable and stuff that can fail and kinda wish for the tiller fitted directly to the rudder post and the piece of mind that brings. I will keep the emergency tiller handy. All in all, my experience leads me to believe that wheels on vessels under 40' are more a dictate of fashion than function. Just my 2c.

Highest Regards, Darrell

 

[centerline]

Yeah- I'd really love being anchored somewhere, with the wheel mounted off to the side rail somewhere, and have to get the hell out of the anchorage at 0230.

I'll keep the tiller thank you.

And for me, the "asking every one to move while we tack" argument is not really valid- the tiller usually pivots up way far enough to clear anyone. And while at anchor, or in the slip, it can stand dead upright and be totally out of the way.

agree... I have sailed with a cockpit full of people, and i have also found this argument of the tiller and people being in the way of each other, to be invalid... the tiller is NOT the problem when tacking, but making sure no one fouls the jib sheet or has it wrapped around their leg IS... this really messes up a well plannad tack

and its not the wheel so much that is the problem, as there are provisions for either removing the wheel or installing a folding wheel (which removes the argument of not having it installed when needed quickly), but the pedestal is still in the way and has to be looked around when visiting with a cockpit full of people.... and walked around, and generally in the way for any purpose other than holding the wheel in place when underway...

any argument that can be made that the pedestal is a good place to mount a table, a drink holder, navionics, ect. is valid only in as much as it needs to make itself useful because of it being in the way to begin with.
there are smaller more compact ways to mount a navionics pod.
im actually surprised that someone hasnt came up with a small, short 24" cockpit mounted pedestal for mounting navionics and a drink holder, in a tiller equipped boat... and it could double as a cockpit table holder when moored. and way less obtrusive in every respect.



bawlmer
Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats
I have owned 2 sailboats. An Irwin 23 with a tiller and my present CAT270 with a wheel. While the tiller is much more salty and you will appear ever more manly wrassling that thing, I guarantee you will tire of it quickly. Also from experience you will have wished you got the one with the wheel on your first longer than a few hours excursion. Just my .02 worth.

im not sure "wrassling with the tiller" on a boat with a balanced rig and trim would be
very descriptive of the task....
and I have had a few 3 and 4 hour excursions on a tiller. its the price we pay to be a sailor....
I have also had 5 hour runs out in the open ocean (and 5 hrs back) in a power boat, with a wheel, it isnt any better...
but more recently I have learned the power of an autopilot... and I will never be without one again.

im not one to care whether i look salty by steering with a tiller, or if i look preppy while steering with a wheel and have a sweater tied around my neck.... im old enough to know that comfort matters above all else....

 

[Jackdaw]

I have owned 2 sailboats. An Irwin 23 with a tiller and my present CAT270 with a wheel. While the tiller is much more salty and you will appear ever more manly wrassling that thing, I guarantee you will tire of it quickly. Also from experience you will have wished you got the one with the wheel on your first longer than a few hours excursion. Just my .02 worth.

Sorry I have to disagree with you, and you only have to look to the short and single handed ocean racing boats for proof. All tillers. With a tiller you can sit with a tiller extender on the edge of the cockpit and steer facing forward. With a wheel you have to STAND the entire time, or sit in the cockpit and twist you neck to look forward. I've raced long distance with both and no question the tiller is easier and more comfortable for long periods.

 

[petersea]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

how hard is it to convert one to a tiller if desired?


Got to think converting from a wheel type to a tiller is not an easy job. Not sure it is even do-able in some boats, will depend on what boat.
If you can, it will involve removing wheel console or wheel pedestal and fixing fiberglass holes in cockpit floor as well as cost of tiller and hardware needed. Will most likely involve relocating engine controls and engine panel on most newer models and possibly the compass also as well as electronics if any. Certain Hunter models (as well as a few others) even have the traveler located on the console and that will have to be relocated as well. Most models have an emergency tiller control in case of wheel failure ,you may want to check out that option first before making a total conversion,but all in all not a very good idea (my opinion). As someone else posted most likely will hurt resale value and this is a big modification and you now have changed the manufactures build specs on the boat. My advise is to figure out what you really want and buy it all ready done from factory. Thinking it will cost you in thousands not hundreds. Just me 2 cents worth !

 

[topcat0399]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

Joystick. On a boat the size of the usual ones around here I think a joystick would be bad karma in a "Its broke and I have to jury rig it NOW" situation. I can't duct tape and lash an oar to a joystick head.

I'll pass.

Our tiller doesn't really make passengers move around much. More the main and jib sheets. Occasionally the halyards.

 

[petersea]

Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats

Centerline, I noticed a trend in the answers and most boat owners under 30 feet preferred/have the tiller. Most larger boat (30 foot plus) owners preferred/have the wheel. Count myself as in favor of the wheel. Just an observation for what its worth !

 

[bawlmer]

All comments heeded. The wheel remains my personal preference after having both. I understand why tillers would be preferred in racing as you have more direct and responsive control of boat. I also had an auto pilot and tamer for the tiller boat. They worked some of the time. The tiller was fun on the Irwin as that boat was just a daysailer and we enjoyed blustery days on the gulf. When longer trips to actual destinations were in order the tiller just became tiresome. Also if put down a boat cushion I can sit and still see over the wheel.

If I had to have both I would own a boat with a wheel and make friends with someone who has a tiller boat and crew with them. I am sure they will let you steer after a while.