Starter Battery/Electrical Charging System Upgrade

Maine Sail · Jan 4, 2013

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
Good Morning All,

Several months ago I posted about possibly sailing our C310 to the Caribbean. Since then, my Bride and I have had serious discussions and have decided that we are going to take off on my 40th birthday (June 2015) and sail south until our money runs out or we get bored.

I have a long list of upgrades and improvements that I will be doing to our C310 for this trip. The first up is the electrical charging system.

I have gone back and forth with Mainesail, Stu and others on some suggestions and thought I would reach out to the C310 group to see what you think of my proposed upgrade.

The motivation for the upgrade is to have a larger house bank size for when we go cruising and get an efficient charge distribution set up with several different ways to charge the batteries. The charging options for cruising are likely to be the alternator, solar panels, shore power and a Honda e2000 generator that I could run while on a mooring or the hook. I am not currently planning on a wind generator, but that could change during our shakedown cruise down the East Coast.

I have attached a wiring diagram of what I am proposing.

The basics of the upgrade are to add a starter battery, put the two 4Ds in series to increase the house bank, add a battery monitor, add an automatic charge relay (ARC) with starter isolation, a dual circuit battery switch (instead of the "1,2,both" switch) and set up the charging distribution to be more efficient.

I will be adding solar panels down the line so I want the upgrade to be set up for an easy add when it's time for the solar panels.

I have uploaded a photo from Mainesail's site that has an example of the charging distribution system I plan to mimic.

I also uploaded a photo of the potential locations I intend to install these components.

I have estimated this project at about $600. So any suggestions on cost savings would be good too.

So please take a look and let me know what you think. I am open to all opinions and suggestions on this upgrade.

Thanks and fair winds.

JK

My only reservations are the small house and start bank fuses. 130A is likely going to result in a nuisance trip eventually. This will almost always happen at the worst possible time. I would prefer to see 200A+.

I am also not a huge fan of the DCP switch as it lacks redundancy and only offers you a "combine" feature in the event of a failure. Combining a good bank with a bad one is never good. You can achieve the same outcome by adding a single ON/OFF switch to your existing 1/2/BOTH yet fully retain all the redundancy. The two 4D's can easily start your motor even at 30% SOC if needed. As long as you recognize the limitations of the DCP switch and in the event of a failure disconnect the bad bank rather than parallel it, then your fine.

The diagram for the 1/2/BOTH and ON/OFF is in this post at the bottom..

Musings Regarding 1/2/BOTH Switch

Tom J · Jan 5, 2013

I assume you meant to put the 4D's in parallel, not in series. I've done most of those upgrades, and they have been well worth it. Mainesail's suggestion about disconnecting a bad bank is good to keep in mind. If you are installing these systems yourself, it would not be difficult to do.

paulj · Jan 5, 2013

JK_Boston_Catalina310

Good luck on that starter battery location...........

paulj :troll:

Tom J · Jan 5, 2013

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
Should I take that to mean you don't think it will fit?

I think it will fit next to the 4D's, but that's where I put my ACR. I put the starter battery just forward of there, in the aft section of the port storage area. It's easy to get to there, and the new cable runs are short.

Maine Sail · Jan 5, 2013

It fit fine on our 310.... This was taken during the fitting out process. My biggest frustration was that Catalina did not leave enough height for 6V batts...... I really dislike 4D's.....

paulj · Jan 5, 2013

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
Should I take that to mean you don't think it will fit?

Yes.................

paulj :troll:

Maine Sail · Jan 6, 2013

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
OK, so it looks like MaineSail's and Paulj's C310 don't have the built in battery box that I have. Or did you cut it away?

I guess I could do what Tom J suggested and put the starter battery in the below the settee storage. Do you have any photos of your install you would care to share.

I think my first step is going to be getting a battery box for the starter battery and seeing where I can get it to fit.

Our was a 2005 and did not have a battery tray. What you see there is how she shipped from the factory. The 4D's were also not in battery boxes which is a violation of ABYC standards for an ABYC builder. Because the battery compartment was open to the bilge it requires "containment" of any electrolyte spillage.... Still, she had a nice ABYC sticker on the stern insinuating she was ABYC compliant..........

We did not keep the boat long enough to kill the 4D's. Unfortunately 6V batts would not have fit, height wise, unless I went with the Lifeline 6V GPL-4CT, which I would not have done, because they are AGM...

When the 4D's died I was going to install 3 or 4 US Battery DCXC 31's for a 390 Ah or 520Ah bank... IIRC my measurements this would have allowed for all batteries to properly "contain" the acid in plastic battery boxes.

rpwillia · Jan 7, 2013

Put the Start Battery on Starboard?

Don't our boat have a slight lean to port? Putting the start battery with the 2 4D's will accentuate that. Would there be room to put it into the starboard side under the seat or perhaps under the sink?

Tom J · Jan 9, 2013

rpwillia said:
Don't our boat have a slight lean to port? Putting the start battery with the 2 4D's will accentuate that. Would there be room to put it into the starboard side under the seat or perhaps under the sink?

I thought of putting the starter battery on the starboard side, because of the port list, as mentioned, but the cable runs would be excessive, I think.

Tom J · Jan 9, 2013

Sorry, JK, I don't have any photos of the install available, and I won't be back to the boat until mid May. I'm assuming you will be doing this project over the winter, but we could still compare systems in the spring if you wish. My boat is at the Town River Yacht Club and we'd be happy to have you folks join us there.

sirocovzla · Jan 9, 2013

I increase my battery bank with 4 AMD group 31 batteries

Stu Jackson · Jan 10, 2013

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
OK, so here is a redesign that takes into account the recommendations by Mainesail and others.

... Please let me know if I am doing something stupid.

For the connection from the starter to the No. 2 post on the 1/2/both/off switch, I plan to use the existing 1/0 gauge wire that is factory from the C post to the starter. I will simply disconnect from the C post and connect to the 2 post.

For the connection from the starter battery, through the new on/off switch to the starter, I plan to use the existing 1/0 gauge wire that is factory from the battery to the 2 post. I will disconnect from the 2 post and shorten to connect to the starter. In the battery storage area, I will connect it to the on/off switch and then to POS Busbar #2. So the switch will be mounted on a piece of starboard along with the ACR, both positive busbars, battery monitor shunt and the negative busbar. (This would mean that we would have to open this area each time we leave the boat, but I am ok with that).

For the connection from the alternator to POS Busbar #1, I plan to use the existing 4 gauge wire that is factory for the second bank from the charger. This line will no longer be needed due to the addition of the ACR.

JK,

Looks very good.

A. The ACR and charger share the same fuse - is that your intent? Maine Sail has shown many examples of wiring to positive bus bars...don't recall if these two devices should have their own fuses, but I would.

B. Wiring from On/Off switch to starter: You show two wires. Consider the suggestion here: Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html

.......PLEASE NOTE for Option 2 (Maine Sail's second diagram with the O/I switch): The wire from the 2 post of the 1-2-B switch is shown going to the starter; it can also just as easily be run to the lower post of the on/off switch, which is just the other end of the same wire. The switches are usually closer to each other, resulting in less wiring.

You might be able to save some wiring AND reduce the # of wires on the starter.

C. Alternator output - #4 might work with the OEM 55A alternator, but if you would ever consider installing a higher output alternator, then use #2 wire or larger depending on run and voltage drop calcs. We have a 100A alternator with #2 wire to the house bank.

D. As mentioned in the link, don't forget the alternator sense wire.

E. Fusing the ACR - 250A sounds too high.

F. Wiring diagram: a) consider adding the wire sizes; b) consider either removing the border or making it a thicker line - it gets confused with the wires visually (sorry - picky, picky, picky - but you asked, right

).

Good luck, looks great. We used 3 Grp 31 130 ah batteries for our house bank.

Maine Sail · Jan 10, 2013

Stu Jackson said:
JK,

l

.......PLEASE NOTE for Option 2 (Maine Sail's second diagram with the O/I switch): The wire from the 2 post of the 1-2-B switch is shown going to the starter; it can also just as easily be run to the lower post of the on/off switch, which is just the other end of the same wire. The switches are usually closer to each other, resulting in less wiring.

You might be able to save some wiring AND reduce the # of wires on the starter.

Stu,

This is the diagram.. Please explain what you mean above....?

With this simple but very redundant system you retain all the isolation & redundancy of the 1/BOTH/2/OFF switch yet ADD a dedicated direct wired starting battery. Simply flip to #1 and ON and your ready to go. When you're done flip both switches to OFF.

If the start battery were to fail flip the ON/OFF to OFF and the 1/BOTH/2/OFF to BOTH and now the house bank is starting and providing house loads. Conversely you can still use the start bank to power house loads in an emergency with the 1/BOTH/2/OFF in position #2 and the start switch to ON.

This system is more complicated but ultimately considerably more flexible than some other systems where you must use the "combine" feature.

By jumpering between #2 & "C" post, not the same.....

Stu Jackson said:
E. Fusing the ACR - 250A sounds too high.

The fuses protect the wiring. If he is using wire that big he can save on additional fusing too. While the ACR wire is larger than needed going bigger won't hurt..

Stu Jackson · Jan 10, 2013

Maine Sail, instead of running the wire from the #2 post of the 1-2-B to the starter, run it to the "bottom" (on the diagram) post of the On/Off switch. Same functionality, no?

And, no, NOT jumpering the 2 and C post - never, of course.

Starter Battery/Electrical Charging System Upgrade

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