I'm considering putting roller furling on my Hunter 23 WK, I have years of experience on bigger boats, and have pretty much settled on the CDI ff2 furler with roller bearings. My question is how big a sail. The original sail is 110%, and I'm thinking something in that range as the boat sails fairly well with the original sail. My question has to do with raising the tack due to the height above deck being increased by the furler. I think I'm going to have to add genoa track to replace the fixed jibsheet block presently on the boat. I'm sure that this would be necessary if I were to go to a 135% genoa. I'm wondering if anyone has done this and could offer suggestions.
Roller Furling on Hunter 23 WK
- Thread starter Dale Fitch
- Start date
As a former dealer for Hunter small sailboats, I used the CDI FF2 system with the lower drum on raised tangs so it would clear the deck vs. in the hole or anchor locker. I use to put on I think up to a 150% genoa adding tracks. Adding tracks you have to make sure that first you have to add the large washers to distribute the load making sure if and I cannot recall exactly as it has been many years, there is a solid ceiling liner if any that you are going thru to avoid deck flexing for short. I hope this helps you and by the way the forum store here was set up by the old Hunter and they are very professional with one member on the sales staff who use to be the salesman for Hunter parts with the old Hunter as I use to know it. Their prices are competitive. Understand that I always have suggested with the smaller boats never to heel over 12-14 degrees using the sails to your advantage for control as you sail faster flatter plus those on board would not be scarred continuing to sail with you. I had some customers who scarred children and there significant others who came to me to repair the damage by teaching my way which they started to win races.
crazy dave condon
crazy dave condon
Dave,
Thanks for the information, I lengthened the tracks on a Thomas 35 that I used to race, I positioned the holes for the screws on the track then drilled a 1/2 inch hole through the deck and liner. I filled that with West System epoxy then drilled the 1/4 inch bolt holes through the deck into the interior. We used backing plates or large washers inside the boat. This prevented the proplem of leaking around the screws and I never had a problem with the deck. You mentioned the forum store and how they might be helpful. I'm wondering where they are located and how I contact them. I think you are absolutely correct in keeping the boat on it's feet for optimum sailing performance.
Thanks for the information, I lengthened the tracks on a Thomas 35 that I used to race, I positioned the holes for the screws on the track then drilled a 1/2 inch hole through the deck and liner. I filled that with West System epoxy then drilled the 1/4 inch bolt holes through the deck into the interior. We used backing plates or large washers inside the boat. This prevented the proplem of leaking around the screws and I never had a problem with the deck. You mentioned the forum store and how they might be helpful. I'm wondering where they are located and how I contact them. I think you are absolutely correct in keeping the boat on it's feet for optimum sailing performance.
go to home page and at the top there is an email icon or phone number icon and click on that but if calling west coast time 9 am to 3:30 pm it is 877-932-7245. Happy New Year
Peter,
I'd be interested in how big a genoa you're using and also the length of the track on your boat. Thanks for the input.
I'd be interested in how big a genoa you're using and also the length of the track on your boat. Thanks for the input.
I think I have about a 130 or 135, but it came with the (used) boat so I am not sure, and the sails are about 3 hrs away from our main house where I am now. Same with the boat, so I can't measure the tracks. I'd guess about 3 or 4 feet. I can see from the way they are installed that it would not be hard to put them in.
I have a Harken furler that came with it, and like Dave said, it is supported by stainless straps (tangs) that fit through the slot formed between the two clamshell doors of the anchor locker. The metal straps are about 1 in wide, two straps back-to-back, in two sections. The lower pair (section) straddles the chain plate in the locker and are held in place by a clevis pin. The upper pair is attached to the lower pair with two bolts, and those two straddle the fitting on the bottom of the furler.
I have a Harken furler that came with it, and like Dave said, it is supported by stainless straps (tangs) that fit through the slot formed between the two clamshell doors of the anchor locker. The metal straps are about 1 in wide, two straps back-to-back, in two sections. The lower pair (section) straddles the chain plate in the locker and are held in place by a clevis pin. The upper pair is attached to the lower pair with two bolts, and those two straddle the fitting on the bottom of the furler.
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I had a 23 with the FF2 , a 135% "deck sweeper" genoa and the tracks on the side decks.
1- Sail was too big for 15-ish or knots of wind, and didn't really sail that well reefed
2 - Visibility sucked
3 - the tracks made a whole lot of extra holes into the cabin
4- It came unrolled once in a storm at the dock and beat up my boat
5 - I couldn't get it to roll up once in a surprise 45 knots out on lake ontario. Ended up having to go up on the foredeck and help while someone pulled the furler line. FF2 has very little leverage. That SUCKED
6 - I ended up ditching it and putting grommets/hanks onto the sail, and installing a downhaul lead back to the cockpit through the same padeyes they used for the furler line.
Real moral of the story - I enjoyed sailing the boat a lot more with the 110 that came in a sail bag than the 135! Only on a real light day did the bigger one come out, and honestly it wasn't big enough or made of a lightweight enough material to do light conditions justice.
1- Sail was too big for 15-ish or knots of wind, and didn't really sail that well reefed
2 - Visibility sucked
3 - the tracks made a whole lot of extra holes into the cabin
4- It came unrolled once in a storm at the dock and beat up my boat
5 - I couldn't get it to roll up once in a surprise 45 knots out on lake ontario. Ended up having to go up on the foredeck and help while someone pulled the furler line. FF2 has very little leverage. That SUCKED
6 - I ended up ditching it and putting grommets/hanks onto the sail, and installing a downhaul lead back to the cockpit through the same padeyes they used for the furler line.
Real moral of the story - I enjoyed sailing the boat a lot more with the 110 that came in a sail bag than the 135! Only on a real light day did the bigger one come out, and honestly it wasn't big enough or made of a lightweight enough material to do light conditions justice.
Brian M H23
As a former dealer who purchased and sold a majority of Hunter 23's from Hunter, I outfitted that boat with many 135 and even 150 genoas sailing them in all types of weather. Sorry to hear you had a difficult time but there is more to this story I would like to hear as my experience in light to very heavy airs sailed fine with the FF 2 CDI. First I never sailed with the full genoa deployed in heavy air.
Often it was in the set up creating a lot of issues and sometimes experience of course but mostly in the set up.
First, I use to raise the furling drum above the deck with extended tangs as that created an issue when furling the sail, leading the furling line aft and the sail was to close to the deck again with the drum in the anchor locker. With the raised drum, I could raise the sail further up allowing the skipper to look underneath but some also requested a window placed in the sail. Another issue over the years was the sail itself not made properly for this boat as it is too big designed for another boat does create issues in obstructing view not to mention difficulty in handling. Another issue was the furling line if not lead aft so it will clear the drum coming out. The drum can be turned with the furling line itself raised up or down so it would clear the opening; otherwise, the line would chafe on the opening of the furling drum, thus causing difficulty in handling. The key to the furling line is to lead it back in a direct line without anything interfering mostly along the life line stanchions. You mentioned the sail unrolled out when you were away for the week or whatever time you were gone. I always taught my customers to tie that line to a second place and tight and then go forward and put a line around the sail itself where the jib sheets were attached and tie it again. I also suggested to ensure that the jib sheets were tight without any slack either. Then I taught my customers to furl the sail into the wind always keeping an eye out for the winds if any issue and then letting the sail out to a comfortable setting but not past the mast. Usually I suggested to use little in heavy air and release as they were comfortable and of course with experience. Never use the genoa portion of the sail above 15-17 knots of wind or deployed out fully. Never heel your boat over 12-14 degree heel in any configuration. I do not know your experience, thus no comment there. Then of course is the rig tune properly? Finally, I had instructors with any boat sold either brokerage or new teach my customers proper sailing techniques. Anytime I hear if new to sailing to get someone to teach. Under no circumstances teach the better half which is the same advice with a car. If any children, leave them home with a babysitter until the lesson or lessons are over as they are distracting during the teaching. Again I do not know your experience but felt a response was needed.
If you would like to discuss this further, I will be glad to call anytime but will exchange personal information via forum private emails as I am a firm believer not to disclose any information to anyone and once finished, I discard that information unless the owner wants me to retain his information. I do not even share the information with my wife.
As a former dealer who purchased and sold a majority of Hunter 23's from Hunter, I outfitted that boat with many 135 and even 150 genoas sailing them in all types of weather. Sorry to hear you had a difficult time but there is more to this story I would like to hear as my experience in light to very heavy airs sailed fine with the FF 2 CDI. First I never sailed with the full genoa deployed in heavy air.
Often it was in the set up creating a lot of issues and sometimes experience of course but mostly in the set up.
First, I use to raise the furling drum above the deck with extended tangs as that created an issue when furling the sail, leading the furling line aft and the sail was to close to the deck again with the drum in the anchor locker. With the raised drum, I could raise the sail further up allowing the skipper to look underneath but some also requested a window placed in the sail. Another issue over the years was the sail itself not made properly for this boat as it is too big designed for another boat does create issues in obstructing view not to mention difficulty in handling. Another issue was the furling line if not lead aft so it will clear the drum coming out. The drum can be turned with the furling line itself raised up or down so it would clear the opening; otherwise, the line would chafe on the opening of the furling drum, thus causing difficulty in handling. The key to the furling line is to lead it back in a direct line without anything interfering mostly along the life line stanchions. You mentioned the sail unrolled out when you were away for the week or whatever time you were gone. I always taught my customers to tie that line to a second place and tight and then go forward and put a line around the sail itself where the jib sheets were attached and tie it again. I also suggested to ensure that the jib sheets were tight without any slack either. Then I taught my customers to furl the sail into the wind always keeping an eye out for the winds if any issue and then letting the sail out to a comfortable setting but not past the mast. Usually I suggested to use little in heavy air and release as they were comfortable and of course with experience. Never use the genoa portion of the sail above 15-17 knots of wind or deployed out fully. Never heel your boat over 12-14 degree heel in any configuration. I do not know your experience, thus no comment there. Then of course is the rig tune properly? Finally, I had instructors with any boat sold either brokerage or new teach my customers proper sailing techniques. Anytime I hear if new to sailing to get someone to teach. Under no circumstances teach the better half which is the same advice with a car. If any children, leave them home with a babysitter until the lesson or lessons are over as they are distracting during the teaching. Again I do not know your experience but felt a response was needed.
If you would like to discuss this further, I will be glad to call anytime but will exchange personal information via forum private emails as I am a firm believer not to disclose any information to anyone and once finished, I discard that information unless the owner wants me to retain his information. I do not even share the information with my wife.
Dave, boat is a few years gone, and I would second that it was definitely installation-related, BUT (and maybe this came with being 25 years old!) I enjoyed the boat a lot more with the hank-on sail. It sailed better - it made me think about "which sail do I want today" - putting the mast up and down became easier - it trailer-ed better (no fat foil with a rolled up sail to zip-tie to the mast) - and I could get the darn headsail down in a blow on a beam reach. I certainly understand a larger boat going to roller furling, but on the little '23, I just don't get it!
I'll be replacement boat shopping soon - trying to figure out where I want it to be moored.
I'll be replacement boat shopping soon - trying to figure out where I want it to be moored.
Brain;
Over the years I had seen so much but can only go with what I commissioned and corrections made to the boats and equipment I use to sell and install besides sailing. The 23 wing keel did have a backstay and was not a B & R rig with later boats which is a difference. I saw other boats and the several things wrong generally included loose rigging/improper rake mast, chafing of the furling line as it is not led out from the furling drum, placement of tracks/lead of genoa sheets, lack of experience and so on. Once corrected and instructions to those owners, there were no more issues. Like you said it has been several years and for me much longer since I have been on a 23 hunter wing keel sailboat.
I liked the CDI FF2 primarily for trailering. First it could lay down in unusual positions on the boat without being damaged vs. others with metal extrusions that could be damaged if not laid down straight with no bends. Secondly, it had it's own internal halyard which did not require the use of the jib halyard which was used for mast raising/lowering and in a hot sun, this made it a lot easier as I was able to simply leave the sail wrapped around the furler if it had a sunbrella cover thus a lot less time particularly at the end of the day. There were other reasons but the two above is why I liked that furler. However, it was the customer's choice of gear on the boat. The 23 wk mast was one not easily to raise or lower as that boat did not come standard with a mast raise system.
Over the years I had seen so much but can only go with what I commissioned and corrections made to the boats and equipment I use to sell and install besides sailing. The 23 wing keel did have a backstay and was not a B & R rig with later boats which is a difference. I saw other boats and the several things wrong generally included loose rigging/improper rake mast, chafing of the furling line as it is not led out from the furling drum, placement of tracks/lead of genoa sheets, lack of experience and so on. Once corrected and instructions to those owners, there were no more issues. Like you said it has been several years and for me much longer since I have been on a 23 hunter wing keel sailboat.
I liked the CDI FF2 primarily for trailering. First it could lay down in unusual positions on the boat without being damaged vs. others with metal extrusions that could be damaged if not laid down straight with no bends. Secondly, it had it's own internal halyard which did not require the use of the jib halyard which was used for mast raising/lowering and in a hot sun, this made it a lot easier as I was able to simply leave the sail wrapped around the furler if it had a sunbrella cover thus a lot less time particularly at the end of the day. There were other reasons but the two above is why I liked that furler. However, it was the customer's choice of gear on the boat. The 23 wk mast was one not easily to raise or lower as that boat did not come standard with a mast raise system.
You don't have to say that twice! I used to put the thing up and down by myself. Main sheet clipped to the bow and jib halyard, tail in my hand with an extension tied on via square knot, mast on my shoulder standing at the back of the boat. Would walk forward pulling in main sheet, when I got to the mast, an awkward dance of pulling jib halyard in and letting out the main sheet, then using the main sheet to pull the sucker up tight enough to get my already-adjusted forestay cotter-pinned.
IT was great that you got it up as it shows determination and ingenuity. I use to get it up in my earlier days but today with back issues and surgery to both shoulders, that is not feasible.
Everyone... Please! Step *away* from the little blue pill comments. Nothing to see here folks.
Kermit;
Some folks could raise the mast by themselves which was good but there others who could not do so by themselves for one reason or another. I applaud those who could as I use to be able to myself many years ago but not today and you saw that last year when I helped you out. Actually I congratulate those who can. Sorry to disagree with you but it needed to be said regarding your comment
Some folks could raise the mast by themselves which was good but there others who could not do so by themselves for one reason or another. I applaud those who could as I use to be able to myself many years ago but not today and you saw that last year when I helped you out. Actually I congratulate those who can. Sorry to disagree with you but it needed to be said regarding your comment
I would not try to raise or lower my 23 mast myself - it is just too hard to keep centered as it is raised (or lowered), even though I fashioned something like baby stays, which do help, and the PO had added a gin pole. I remove the jib from the (Harken) furler, which makes it easier as you are not wrestling with the weight and bulk of the rolled sail. The biggest challenge is pinning the mast foot. The 23 mast is rather tall, and when it is positioned ready to be pinned more of its weight is aft of the mast crutch (at least on mine). So it wants to tilt back, lifting the foot. The pressure needed to keep it down while you pin it is not all that great, but it is very awkward nonetheless.
Using various attachments like the baby stays, and a line to help hold the foot down as I slide the mast aftward (when raising) I can minimize the time I need from helpers, but I still feel I need some extra help. I built a wooden extension that bolts to the top of the crutch, that raises the level of the mast about 2 feet, and has a rubber trailer roller on top. That also helps, but there is one point where the mast has to be lifted a bit to get the spreaders past (further aft of) the crutch, which is a lot easier with at least 2 people. If I could get that crutch about a foot further back, it'd be easier - but the transom position and angle, given the use of the pintles to support the crutch, makes that all but impossible.
Using various attachments like the baby stays, and a line to help hold the foot down as I slide the mast aftward (when raising) I can minimize the time I need from helpers, but I still feel I need some extra help. I built a wooden extension that bolts to the top of the crutch, that raises the level of the mast about 2 feet, and has a rubber trailer roller on top. That also helps, but there is one point where the mast has to be lifted a bit to get the spreaders past (further aft of) the crutch, which is a lot easier with at least 2 people. If I could get that crutch about a foot further back, it'd be easier - but the transom position and angle, given the use of the pintles to support the crutch, makes that all but impossible.
What is the best type of tang to use on a hunter 23 to install a roller furling and what brand roller furling would you reccomend
Thanks
Thanks
My post (#7) above describes what I have for a tang. Can't say that is the best, but it's what came with the boat. I don't know the length, but it attaches to the lower (or rearmost) of the two chain plate holes in the anchor locker, and should be long enough to keep the bottom of whatever furler you buy to a bit above the closed anchor locker covers. Mine extends probably 2 in or so above the top of those doors. I happen to have a Harken, which has been fine (once I fixed the incorrect initial installation). Others seem to prefer the CDI as it has a plastic foil that may be easier to install yourself, as it doesn't require you to assemble a rigid foil on-site, over the forestay, by screwing together foil sections, and it has a built-in halyard (though using my internal mast halyard for the Harken is not an issue for me, and I remove the sail from the furler before I lower the mast).