Reasons for a survey

[OS2Dude]

A survey is like insurance. When you don't need it it seems like a waste of money, but when you do you are glad you have it. So when the surveyor doesn't find anything you didn't already know about you could think it a waste, but if he does find something you'll be glad you did it.

When my wife and I bought our current boat (1985 Catalina 30) we had a survey done. I have sailed for several years and did my own inspection of potential vessels we chose to get the survey on the one we wanted just to get another set of eyes on it. The in/out of water survey cost us a little over $500, plus $300 for the short haul and wash-down. He previously stated he would not dismantle or remove anything, just inspect what he could see. So did he miss a few things? Sure. Did he find things I had not seen or was aware of? Yes. Would I have liked to have the $800 for refit? Of Course. Was it worth it to us? Definitely.

If you get a survey, ASK if he minds if you tag along. We left our surveyor alone while he did the survey, and then asked him to show us all the things he saw. He appreciated us not nagging him with questions while he worked, and was very willing to explain his findings and suggest solutions after he was done.

 

[Perfect Excuse]

Done it both ways including one that I bought sight-on-seen after talking to the owner who owned it for 25 years and had a publicly known racing record. After several conversations and him telling me what his 'to do' list for the boat, I compared that to the pessimistic value of the boat and judged the risk. Even good surveyor can miss things, but they help you in your analysis. Consider $1500 and you decide not to buy the boat due to the survey, that in my opinion, is $1500 well spent dollars. As my wife says, "It's a boat, everything is broken you just don't know it yet." That attitude has be proven oh so correct.

 

[nmenkes]

From experience of 4 yachts, a survey is worth any money you pay for it.
Just think what an engine overall will cost
Bottom painting you do every year or two.
On a 45 feet yacht it cost less then 1000 $ including hauling out/in

 

[Captain Bucknut]

Hmmmm.... So first thing, $1500 is steep. $25 foot seems about right. Then again the inboard may add more and any travel fees?

I would say that this depends on how comfortable you are with checking the engine, electrical etc. When we were checking out boats, I did a bit of a presurvey myself before deciding to go ahead and pay for a full marine survey. Saved me from purchasing the first one we put an offer on. That and the fact that the seller copped a bit of an attitude when the surveyor was running a bit late and really opened my eyes to how she was with the boat.

The surveyor was great and allowed me to tagged along as he checked everything out. He went a bit further than he said he was going to and that's when we found a couple concerns. Nothing major, but it allowed me to see what to do and how deep to go.

Ended up not doing a survey when we settled on the next boat. She was always barn stored and never sat out in the weather for more than a 7 week period for long cruises. The PO is a power squadron officer and babied her. He is in his 80's and just could not keep up with her anymore. We spent about 24 hours together over three days as we went through everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, warts and all. He even offered to sell me the tow vehicle, which was the same age as the boat (30+ yrs.) In the end it was more like an adoption than a purchase. We are still in touch if I need any questions or concerns answered.

I do not regret the marine survey and prolly would have done one on our girl if I did not have that type of cooperation and time spent.

 

[Gunni]

Surveryors are like any other unregulated profession, you get what you shop for. Shop wisely. Look for someone with credentials from the two credentialing trade groups. A survey formalizes the boat inspection process and provides you with the ability to inspect and test everything in great detail under the wing of your on-board expert. You don't get the kind of unvarnished detail you need when some antsy owner or broker is following you around the boat attempting to take advantage of your 1) lack of expertise, and 2) stated desire to buy the boat. For this purchase (old, big and expensive to repair) if you do your own survey, as they say in the legal business - you have a fool for a surveyor.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

When I bought my current boat - I chose not to have an Independent survey. The broker provided at no cost to me a copy of a survey the seller commissioned 5 months before. I investigated the surveyor and found he had a very good reputation. Many but not all of the items were fixed prior to purchase. The only thing I've found that he missed is a mandatory fix to the alternator bracket.

 

[Sailsteve]

Get a survey for all of the reasons listed above... it will ease the worry a bit... But also, get real... a 45 year old boat is bound to have issues of some kind. We purchased a 15 year old 41 footer last year and I learned a great deal from walking around the boat with the surveyor. I was confident at the end of the process that I was not buying a lemon. By the way... the cost for my survey was $750 for a 41 foot boat. I don't understand the $1500 price.. way too high for an afternoon of on site work and the preparation of a survey document.

 

[Gunni]

Well there is the surveyor fee, and there is the short-haul fee. And if you have an engine or electrical specialist the all-up fee could reach $1,500. Recommend you scour the internet and research every known issue for this boat, and others made by Islander. Then sort them from Inconvenient to deal killer and brief your surveyor. Can you endure a lost sailing season while you do a major refit with the reserve you negotiated at sale? At what level of wear or disrepair would you want to walk away? What is your balance between sailor, and repairman?

 

[DayDreamer41]

Personally I wouldn't purchase a vessel of that value without a survey, I take it that the $1500 includes the haul out and the inspection which I believe is right in line with today's rates. Its not just the systems, but the possibilities of deck to hull leaks, core degradation, motor and drive condition. Looking at the average cost of this vintage and size its quite an investment without 2nd party verification, but the Freeport is a beautiful redesign of the Charlie Davies Islander 40 by Robert Perry.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

He has a 28-footer now, but did he say the boat he was looking to buy was a 28-footer?

 

[Kings Gambit]

He has a 28-footer now, but did he say the boat he was looking to buy was a 28-footer?

No. Islander Freeport 41

 

[jssailem]

The boat I'm looking at is a 1976 islander Freeport (41') center cockpit

BB, Here is what the OP said about the boat he is looking at.
I looked at the survey process when looking for my boat. When I was looking to negotiate a price on something north of 30K it only seemed a prudent action. As I looked at boats and read the forums on SBO, my own sense of ability strengthened. As I identified the type of boat and realized that a boat 40 years old would mean replacement of many systems, my goal focused on a sound hull and basic infrastructure (mast, basic design, year of lay-up, boat design reputation...) I then found a favorably priced boat with as good backbone. The seller offered a 15 month old survey that he had used to fix up the boat for sale, correcting the high priority issues (like engine over heating).

What I discovered was the survey looked at the surface issues. It appears the surveyor missed the "sail boat issues". He did hit the keys about infrastructure that I used to support concerns I revealed prior to looking at the survey. So yes the survey was helpful, yet relying on a survey as gospel as to a boat's condition would be only a opening the opportunity for disappointment.

I have come to experience a few issues that the survey called out as ok, that in the first year required repair. These repairs were made in part on my level of expectation for boat performance based on planned use. The survey helped in prioritizing changes I want to make to the boats level of maintenance and capability. The survey was additionally helpful in establishing a value for insurance. That the survey was provided as a freebie, I valued at what I had to pay for it. So far so good in my experience.

 

[Mrlee]

I think it depends a lot on your plans for the boat as well. I bought my I30 at a real discount knowing that I wanted to go through the whole boat anyhow. The motor, sails and rigging were in order so I wasn't too worried about anything else. I have since refurbished everything else and all systems are changed and upgraded. Total investment is still lower than the cost of buying a "sail her away" boat which IMHO is a falacy unless the price is on the high side. I also have the security of knowing what is there and that it will not fail me anytime soon...
Go for it!!!!

 

[tahoemark]

For boat of that size I would highly recommend a survey and agree with what others have said. However, I learned after my first boat that their are more and less detailed surveys and surveyors. In finding a surveyor I want to know if they are familiar with the make/model of boat. I ask for sample survey on a similar boat (this tells me how detailed they are). I prefer to tag along if they don't mind. But either way insist they show me everything they have discovered. I've owned boats for 50 years and still learn a thing or two on a survey, or perhaps specific things to look out for in that particular make/model. My favorite surveyor told me on the phone that brokers didn't like him because his surveys were so thorough and probably killed a deal or two. I hired him he was great.

 

[dpoole15]

A survey is always a good idea; particularly given the blind euphoria that seems to overtake us when we become enamored with "that" sailboat. Guess that's why we refer to them as "she". An independent surveyor can at least provide the hard cold facts. Also, its an excellent document to use when negotiating price. Put a dollar value on each shortcoming and adjust the offer accordingly. Don't know about your area but on the gulf coast a survey plus haul out and water blasting costs about $800-$900.

 

[KZW]

I'm glad I had a survey. The surveyor found that the rudder was delaminating. When holes were drilled, it was full of water. The rudder would have failed without warning. The seller paid for a new rudder, installed, and I bought the boat. The survey was $700 for a 31 ft boat and well worth the price.

 

[rockingham]

Most insurers want a survey.

 

[JamesG161]

Although you may not get it...
Ask the current owner for a copy of HIS survey.

I got 3 surveyor's names from my Buyer's broker, who was the owner of one of the largest brokerages in Florida. I interviewed all of them. Picked the one who was a diesel mechanic too.

I still refer to my Survey after 2.5 years.

The Bigger the boat...
The Bigger the value...

You might ask a potential Surveyor for a redacted copy of his past work on a similar boat, so you can see what to expect for the $$$.
Jim...

 

[Maine Sail]

A good survey usually cost you NOTHING.... They always find issues that almost always far exceed the cost of the survey.

 

[vhoisington]

Well, keep your fingers crossed, knock on wood and rub your lucky rabbits foot!! Its taken 18 months of searching and sorting through every used boat we could find on the west coast. We've seen sailboats, trawlers (yes we considered the dark side) as new as 2007 and as old as 1950's, all had their pluses and some even a few minuses.

Finally the bank came through today after a fight over the BUCvalu (sort of a KBB for Boats) for the soon to be new boat. Interesting, when searching for new old boats what needs to be presented to ensure you get a good valuation to enable financing on an almost 40 year old boat. I fly out Fri. to do a self survey and test sail/drive but, baring major engine failure or other catastrophe, Desiderata an Islander 41 Freeport Ketch will be ours by Christmas.

Now the fun will begin as we start the process of making her ours. Lot's of cleanup, some new equipment (read toys), a little varnish and the joy of learning the quirks and tricks of sailing a ketch. I'll learn a lot moving up from a Hunter 28 on an inland lake to a much larger full keel boat sailing on SFBay and beyond. I'll be looking to help and guidance form this forum for everything from rebuilding watermakers to deciding what radar is the best for an old boat.

And a special thanks to everyone on this forum, contributors and lurkers alike, who offered thoughts and ideas while I debated the use of a surveyor. Just to close out, There was a survey on the boat and a separate one for the moter done 3 years ago. That and my general (mis)understanding of what I'm looking at and I decided not to do a survey this go around. She's old, she floats, and soon she'll be ours!! what more can we ask for.

Stay tuned, I'll post again after we get all of the paperwork completed and its official. Probably with more questions.