Ooh that smell, can't you smell that smell?

Allex

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Aug 1, 2016
4
Almond 31 Havre de Grace
You Have decided to replace the tank and new connections as well we had the same issue and the new tank took on the smell eventually and we had to find a different answer. We dwell in the upper Chesapeake and after talking to other boat owners as well as charter companies we fond the solution for us. Fresh water flushing! replacing the head with a power flush connected to the fresh water supply fixed the issue. Black water is filled with bacteria and bay water helped it grow, fresh water from the marina is chlorinated and keeps the tank and buy proxy my wife's nose happy:)
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
In 25 years, yours is the first tank I've ever heard of that actually had permeated...and if it was anyone BUT you, I'd still be skeptical. Lots of claims, but every one turned out to be odor from inside the tank escaping through fittings that hadn't been plugged or through crack or other leak in the tank.

Stargazer...you might want to read the MSDS for OdoBan OdoBan MSDS With so many environmentally friendly products on the market now that work--notably NoFlex--do you really want to use a product that warns against allowing a spill to run off to creeks and waterways, with a first aid warning to call poison control immediately if swallowed?
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,669
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
In 25 years, yours is the first tank I've ever known to permeate...and if it was anyone BUT you, I'd still be skeptical. Lots of claims, but every one turned out to be odor from inside the tank escaping through fittings that hadn't been plugged.
Peggy,

It's the only one I've seen too.. Usually a "bleach submersion" or just a "foaming bleach" wash down, takes care of any externally attached odors but the Ericson tank seemed to be "embedded" in the raw material.

The tank had a rough suede look to it, rather than smooth, and that made me question the resin mix...? I always plug tanks and have a nice collection of plastic NPT plugs just for that purpose...

The top black tank in this image was the Ericson tank. In this photo both tanks are being internally bleached sanitized and they are plugged at all openings.

Normally this works incredibly well and it's end of story. The bottom tank had zero odors in less than a 36 hour soak and just an exterior bleach spray down (did not even require any PureAyre)..

The top tank never survived even when the whole tank, not just inside, was submerged in a bleach bath for multiple weeks. Again, that black tank is the ONLY sanitation tank I have ever seen that seemed to "odor permeate"... I have seen plastic diesel tanks odor permeate but not sanitation, other than this one.

 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
You Have decided to replace the tank and new connections as well we had the same issue and the new tank took on the smell eventually and we had to find a different answer. We dwell in the upper Chesapeake and after talking to other boat owners as well as charter companies we fond the solution for us. Fresh water flushing! replacing the head with a power flush connected to the fresh water supply fixed the issue. Black water is filled with bacteria and bay water helped it grow, fresh water from the marina is chlorinated and keeps the tank and buy proxy my wife's nose happy:)
A bunch of conclusions without any basis in fact...so common when it comes to toilets and holding tanks that I named my first book (actually just a booklet I published in 1994) "Marine Sanitation: Fact vs. Folklore"...folklore that's been repeated so many times that it's become accepted as fact.

There is so much bacteria in sewage that the tank doesn't even notice whether the flush water is fresh or salt. If it did, flushing with fresh water would also reduce odor out the vent even from tanks that are anaerobic. But flushing with fresh water DOES prevent the same odors in the toilet discharge line that occur in the toilet intake line and pump when sea water is allowed sit and stagnate in it. There's a much less expensive solution to both problems: tee the head intake line into the head sink drain line to supply a safe source of fresh water to rinse the sea water out of the WHOLE system. If you search for "intake odor" in the archives of the plumbing and sanitation forum, you'll find a lot of discussion about how to do it and how many people have done it.

As for keeping your wife's nose happy...unless a tank is leaking, it's rarely if ever (I would have said never if I hadn't just read Maine Sail's post) the source of odor INSIDE the boat...'cuz odor from inside the tank has only one place to go: out the tank vent. So nothing you do to the tank will prevent or cure odor inside the boat...there's always another source for those.
Y'all might want to check out the link in my signature here...it's a comprehensive "marine toilets and holding tanks 101" manual that can prevent almost all "head aches."
 
Jul 18, 2014
14
Hunter 34 Sydney
I've heard good things about PurAyre - I will try it. For my 31-year old smelly poly tank in a Hunter 34, I removed the tank, pressure rinsed the interior, lightly sanded the exterior. Wiped off the dust, sprayed on a coat of Krylon Fusion for Plastic paint (the only product that will stick to the poly, and create a primer base), then sprayed on two coats of rubber paint (aerosol can). Exterior smell completely gone (masked by coating). I'm hoping this is a near-permanent fix.
 

pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
Has any one of you tried one of these for boat odor?Commercial Industrial Ozone Generator


Hotels use these all the time to remove cigarette/cigar and other odors(vomit) from Hotel Rooms.
I have a smaller one that I have used multiple times to remove smoke and other odors from used cars I have purchased. They work great but you cannot use them in an occupied space. My wife forgot a bag of oranges in the trunk of her car for a week in the summer, and they, burst and rotted. What a stench. Two days with Ozone generator in the trunk, and the odor was gone.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
You can never completely eliminate any odor unless you first eliminate the source. Although commercial ozone generators used by licensed pros generate enough ozone to kill the sources of odors, Retail ozone generators aren't allowed produce enough to be more than just air fresheners. According to the EPA, "Available scientific evidence shows that, at concentrations that do not exceed public health standards, ozone is generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution. The concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants. In the process of reacting with chemicals indoors, ozone can produce other chemicals that can be irritating and corrosive."
And you wouldn't want to use anything on a boat that is strong enough because ozone in any concentration high enough to destroy any odor causing contaminants is not only a health hazard, it's also HIGHLY corrosive and destructive rubber, neoprene and flexible PVC-in other words, every seal, valve and hose on a boat.
 
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pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
You can never completely eliminate any odor unless you first eliminate the source. Although commercial ozone generators used by licensed pros generate enough ozone to kill the sources of odors, Retail ozone generators aren't allowed produce enough to be more than just air fresheners. According to the EPA, "Available scientific evidence shows that, at concentrations that do not exceed public health standards, ozone is generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution. The concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants. In the process of reacting with chemicals indoors, ozone can produce other chemicals that can be irritating and corrosive."
And you wouldn't want to use anything on a boat that is strong enough because ozone in any concentration high enough to destroy any odor causing contaminants is not only a health hazard, it's also HIGHLY corrosive and destructive rubber, neoprene and flexible PVC-in other words, every seal, valve and hose on a boat.

Good to know. Mine is a commercial one I picked up at a yard sale.. I have not needed it on the boat, but it has worked well for other areas. I did not notice any rubber deterioration. but I am sure with extended exposure that could happen.

I found this explanation online:

Jamie Hansmann said:
How does Ozone remove odor One common question that people have about using ozone is exactly how an ozone machine is able to remove odors from houses, cars, clothing, etc. To help answer the question I figured it was worth a quick mention here.

Basically, ozone removes odor by destroying the molecules, bacteria, and spores that cause unpleasant smells. Ozone (O3) is a highly reactive molecule and is very quick to chemically react with particles that it comes into contact with in the air and on surfaces. The extra oxygen atom in the ozone attaches itself to other molecules, chemically changing their structure to create non-offensive molecules – eliminating the smell


How Ozone Breaks Down Odor

When considering bacteria and spores the same process applies, with ozone attacking the outer shell of the cell causing it to break down. When the outer shell degrades, the cell itself breaks apart and dies.

With this in mind, it makes sense that a situation with stronger odor (and more odor-causing molecules or particles) requires more ozone to remove the smell – there needs to be enough ozone to react with all of the offensive molecules it encounters. This requires either A) a longer ozone treatment or B) higher concentrations of ozone (a larger ozone generator). Check out this chart of common odors to see typical treatment times for common problems.

One common scenario involves people who have “tried everything” to get rid of a smell, but are still left with lingering scents that just don’t seem to go away. One reason that ozone is effective in these situations is because, as a gas, ozone effectively “cleans” any place that air can go. This includes air, walls, ceilings, ductwork, carpet fibers, gaps between floorboards, cracks in walls, and more. Ozone is able to penetrate into these areas and destroy odors that it finds there.

So how does ozone get rid of smells? It chemically breaks down odor-causing molecules in any area where air is allowed to flow.
 
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Oct 7, 2008
378
Oday Oday 35 Chesapeake Bay
I wonder if you can do the same test on a tank that you do on a hose to see if it has permeated? Wipe down with hot rag.
 
Oct 1, 2009
23
American Sail 18 American Sail 18 Everywhere
Yes EPA approved poly tanks are permeable. Yes the smells eventually pollute the bilge. I owned a powerboat with and 80 gallon poly fuel tank and the console and bilge always smelled heavily of gasoline. Apparently there is a "low" level of permeability acceptable to the powers that be and EPA. Just like the new gasoline gery cans, they let the odors pass through. Don't believe the marketers or you will be their victim.

I had a camper with poly "black" water tanks and they stunk from first day they were used. Apparently this is acceptable to the industry. Eventually I got rid of the tank and replaced it with a new one. But we never used the new one for #2. We adopted the poo in a plastic bag and dumped it in the park "contaminated trash" bin.

Be advised that the smell eventually gets absorbed by everything in the bilge. You can clean the tank and fill it up with clorox but the bilge will always smell of the stuff that was in the tank.
 
Last edited:
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
I wonder if you can do the same test on a tank that you do on a hose to see if it has permeated? Wipe down with hot rag.
Nope. But you could very well get a false positive--odor from another source (permeated hoses) that has attached itself to the outside of the tank.

Yes EPA approved poly tanks are permeable. Yes the smells eventually pollute the bilge.
Only one thing wrong with your argument: the EPA doesn't approve tanks--neither water, fuel nor waste. Plastic fuel tanks must meet US Coast Guard standards, there are no EPA standards for ANY tanks. Nor are there ANY standards for water or waste tank materials, only where you have to use waste tanks. As a result, anything that can hold water is automatically a holding tank if you want it to be...anything anyone wants to sell as a marine or RV water or waste tank is "legal." When I was in business in Atlanta, there were a bunch of houseboat owners who were able to get 55 gal. poly CocaCola syrup drums--which have walls that are thinner than my thumbnail because they aren't meant to be re-used for anything-- cheap, and installed 'em as holding tanks....perfectly legal. Within a year, we'd replaced most of 'em with real PE waste tanks...not because they'd permeated, but because the walls weren't thick enough to support 450 lbs of sewage and cracked. And fwiw, poly RV tanks typically have a lot thinner walls than marine tanks, which makes them a lot more susceptable to flexing and cracking. That's acceptable in the RV industry because any spill just lands on the ground, not in a bilge.

So unfortunately you jumped to a bunch of wrong conclusions based solely on your own experience without bothering to confirm whether youe conclusions had any basis in fact. If you had, you might also have learned how to completely eliminate the odor in your bilge.
 
Apr 9, 2017
1
Tartan 34c NY
Hi Peggy,

Do you have any advice about eliminating bilge odor from a diesel boat out of belongings such as plastic kitchenware? I have been successful with fabrics by just washing them with vinegar and detergent but the plastics seem to really cling onto the smell! I also plan to sand and paint the fiberglass interior of the boat as part of the boat overhaul. This is all in addition to cutting out the shell of my engine compartment, removing the engine and sucking out the contents of what is down below there with powerful cleaning products (this is a Seafarer 38). I am not sure if you have another thread that deals with these questions. Any advice is much appreciated!
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
I see you've just joined us today...welcome aboard!

You shouldn't have to pull the engine to clean the bilge...a power washer with a strong solution of detergent and water (engine degreasers sold at auto parts stores are good for this job), followed by a VERY thorough rinse to get rid of all the dirty water...and finally a dinghy bailer, shop vac and/or whatever works to get rid of all the remaining CLEAN water. Leave hatches open for 24 hours so the bilge can dry out.

As for your plastic kitchenware...first time I've ever heard of any kitchenware becoming permeated with ANY odor, so I haven't participated in any threads about that. But I have written two books (see link in my signature for the latest one) full of info about how to find and eliminate all kinds of odors. Try soaking it in undiluted PureAyre overnight. If that doesn't do it, take it home and run it through the dishwasher. If THAT doesn't destinkify it, I'm afraid it's time to replace it. Shops like TJ Maxx, Tuesday Morning and Ross have all kinds of decent quality stuff for very reasonable prices. I think I bought the Corell plates for my own boat at Walmart.
 
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