O'Day 302 Loses Keel - Check Yours!!

Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
This is an alarming situation. I came across this on another forum and wanted to share it here to prevent any more potentially life threatening situations.

The following is a direct quote from John/US27inKS, the guy who posted this. He is allowing me to use these photos in an attempt help prevent this from happening again, at least for forum readers who own these boats.

One of our club members lost his boat this weekend. Fortunately it happened right in front of the club, and someone saw the boat go over. Myself and two others raced out in one of our pontoon boats and pulled 4 people out of the water. No one was hurt.

Here's what happened as far as I know.

A father and his 3 adult sons went out for a sail on a beautiful Saturday. Winds were 10-15 mph. They were sailing about 100 yards off the east shore, across from our club, about a mile across the lake, and it was just before dusk. The boat started taking on water. The water ingress was slow at first, and the crew assumed that they had lost a hose for the head. One of the crew went below, threw the 3 life jackets that were already laying out up into the cockpit, and started bailing with a bucket. The engine was started and the crew turned into the wind to drop the sails. The water started coming faster, and the situation was looking bad. Then the boat shuddered a bit, and the water started coming in like a geyser. The sails were still up, and the boat was knocked over almost immediately. The crew who was below swam out of the companionway and grabbed a floating life jacket. One of the crew grabbed the horseshoe. I had just pulled my dinner off the grill when someone yelled that a keelboat just went over. I saw the entire bottom of the boat, but it took a bit for me to react. I guess I wasn't really sure I was seeing what I was seeing. The engine started smoking badly, which was my first clue that this was a really bad situation. Someone called 911, someone else got on the vhf to the coast guard, and 3 of us headed for the docks. When we arrived on the scene 5-10 minutes after the boat went over, most of the boat was underwater. The mast is in the mud, and there is a small amount of air trapped in the hull keeping it afloat just breaking the surface of the water.

This morning one of our club members tied a couple of white plastic barrels to the wreck. There was a lot of traffic on the lake today, there was no sense in having to do another rescue.
This is not the first O'Day keel loss I have read about but the first one where I have seen photos of the keel stub after it broke away. While we don't have the keel, it's on the lake bottom, this does not seem to be a situation of rotted wood in a keel stub or even rotted keel bolts but rather a very, very thin layup at least IMHO when compared to many other boats I have seen. The other O'Day I read about was on the Great Lakes and had a similar experience. I tried searching archives but I honestly can't remember which of the sailing forums I read it on but it was about two years ago.

If you take a close look at the bilge pump photo you'll get a good idea of the cross section/thickness of the keel stub. You can see the inside where the pump was screwed to and the keel stub fairing filler (gray colored) wrapping round the bottom/outside of the lamination giving you the entire thickness. If anyone has a Rule 800 bilge pump it would be good to know how wide those blue plastic inlet pieces are to compare and understand the thickness of this keel stub.

I would say that anyone with an O'Day 302 would seriously want to examine the keel stub for any signs of stress cracking and take appropriate measures to re-laminate the stub and make it stronger. You may want to consult with a N/A on how best to deal with this.

I saw a Pearson 34 during a keel re-set last year, due to crevice corrosion, and the keel stub was nearly 1" thick, this one appears to be perhaps a 1/4" thick.

Please, if you own a late 80's O'Day do not ignore this it could potentially kill someone.



 
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MrBee

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Dec 30, 2008
425
Irwin 34 Citation Middle River, Md.
If I owned an Oday like that I would be worried right now. That is way to thin to support the Keel.

Bee
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Would be interesting to followup if any forensic analysis is performed. Looks more like fiberglass fatigue to me; due possibly to the stress concentrations at the mating surfaces ... not the keelbolts, etc. Ive always avoided 'bolt on keels' due to extreme stress (risers) possibilities involved with such a design; such 'cantilever' designs are EXTREMELY tricky and very hard to predict.

A lot of fiberglass fatigue has been under discussion lately. A reference source could be found from such publications as: Marine Technology, Vol 38, No4. Oct 2001, pp 278-292. Fatigue of Fiberglass is little understood although some have offered prediction models, etc. as alluded to in the above referenced article.

Simple speak: the fiberglass became 'tuckered-out'.
:)
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Simple speak: the fiberglass became 'tuckered-out'.
:)
Because of its thickness or lack there of? If it was thicker and stronger would it have less fatigue and or movement leading to fatigue? This boat is only 21 years old (1988) and there are many fin keelers out there pushing 35+.. Why would such a young lake sailed boat fail at such an early age when other that are undoubtedly other boats, many even older, sailed harder, and in more extreme conditions, that are still going strong..??
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Fatigue isnt dependent on 'thickness' per se; but, IS dependent if the stress 'concentrates' there. With complicated 'beam stress' thicker is not always stronger.

When the stress becomes 'concentrated' (a 'stress riser' in engineering speak) the simple values of ultimate tensile/compression values are 'not applicable' and may be much less due to the geometry that causes the 'stress riser'. Anytime stress is made to 'turn corners', such as in a cantilever (ie.: bolt on keel) structure the 'normal' tensile/compression values 'go out the window' due to these 'stress concentrations'. A keel that is bolted on is a classic cantilever and requires very special 'beam formulas' (followed by most boatbuilders) ... or EXTENSIVE long term dynamic testing to prove its efficacy as a structure - something a boatbuilder simply doesnt have the time nor funding to do. Whats happening is that a pattern of keel failures are beginning to show up - the insurers will call this 'scantling history of structural failure' and will require future/similar design to become 'more conservative' or they simply wont insure such boats; thus, affecting some correction for other builders, etc. Whats probably happening is that the original design is only now possibly finally showing itself as faulty vs. long term service. Forensic analysis of the failure is definitely needed, etc.
 

RAD

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Jun 3, 2004
2,330
Catalina 30 Bay Shore, N.Y.
Maybe the keel had hit bottom or a rock some where along the way and did most of the damage.
 
Jan 1, 2009
371
Atlantic 42 Honolulu
... Forensic analysis of the failure is definitely needed
Amen.

But, since we're free to speculate here: I agree with Main Sail, that laminate schedule looks pretty slim. It looks to me like they ripped the backing plates for the keel bolts right through the stub. Looking at the holes I suspect they used washers with corners and hard edges on them which would be stress risers and laid the stub up way to thin and flexy. Of course, we don't know the history of these boats and it isn't a statistically significant sample -- it's possible the design is ok and these ones got abused somehow -- but my guess is that this is a build problem. I'd certainly check the keel if I had a 302.

--Tom.
 
Jun 11, 2004
1,621
Oday 31 Redondo Beach
Assuming a visual of the keel to hull joint and the keel bolts look good, short of dropping the keel, how would someone inspect for this?
 
Oct 23, 2008
138
Macgregor v22 Tacoma
I would have to agree with tsm. Does it have a history of groundings since it was a lake boat?
 
Jan 1, 2009
371
Atlantic 42 Honolulu
Assuming a visual of the keel to hull joint and the keel bolts look good, short of dropping the keel, how would someone inspect for this?
All very, very much IMO:

If you can see inside the bilge (ie it isn't full of vermiculite or something) I'd look for cracks, particularly around the corners of the washers on the keel bolts and the turn of the sump. You might try a little dye to highlight them. If the bilge is painted or has excess sealant in it you'd need to consider removing that for inspection. And I would sound for voids or delams by tapping. If on the hard you could support the keel and remove the nuts and washers and inspect around the keel bolt area. But, for all of that, I'd plan on dropping the keel at some point. Seems like cheap insurance to me.

--Tom.
 
Apr 28, 2005
267
Oday 302 Lake Perry, KS
I'm now officially freaked out -- advice please

As the owner of a 1988 O'Day 302, I'm now officially freaked out. I'm off on a trip and can't get to the boat for a couple of weeks, but what should I look for/at while it's in the water?

Inspect the bilge and look for cracks?
Obviously, water in the bilge would be a problem sign -- mine stays dry as a bone.
Send a diver down? To look for what?

When I last had the bottom painted, the keel had a bit of a "wobble" -- I could move the keel side to side about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch? Is that normal? The boatyard guy said, "Don't worry about it. It's not going any where." But this recent example is of a keel that did go somewhere: to the bottom.

Am I right in thinking that getting the boat hauled and inspected is a very good idea? What should I be looking for when the boat is out of the water?
Cracks where the keel meets the hull? (all that looked good two years ago when I had the bottom work done)

Our yard people at the marina are less than extraordinary and likely wouldn't be much help -- anybody know of a good surveyor in the Kansas City area?

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. This is scary.
 
Jan 1, 2009
371
Atlantic 42 Honolulu
When I last had the bottom painted, the keel had a bit of a "wobble" -- I could move the keel side to side about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch? Is that normal?
No, it is not.

Does your keel look like this:



If so, that looks like and unusually narrow sump for a massive wing keel. I think it is safe to say it would be "bad" to have it flopping around... :neutral:

I'd be very tempted to get a real naval engineer to advise me if it were mine.

--Tom.
 

Smitty

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Sep 16, 2005
108
Cal 28-2 Milford, CT
The couple next to me has an O'Day 302 of about this vintage. They are fairly new to sailing. It's their first boat and this is their 2nd full season. I'm trying to decide whether I should forward this to them and maybe panic them, mention this subject to them or let it go. There were a lot of these boats built and I really can't get my head around whether this is a statistically significant risk or not.

Several years ago another O'Day 302 in our marina had the same problem and lost the boat in Long Island Sound in a very bad blow. All of the crew were saved & rescued, but the boat and equipment were a total loss. So that now makes three of these that I've heard of that have had this calamity befall them.

So, what's the collective opinion? Tell them about it or not?

--Smitty
 
Dec 9, 2006
694
Oday 22 Hickory, NC
Smitty...you would be remiss if you did not tell them.
Think of it his way...if they were sailing and this happened...and you had not given them a heads up to look at it...
Jack
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,045
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
I could have.....

There is a wonderful poem out there called "I could have saved a life that day." Search on it on the net and I think you'll get your answer about whether to discuss this with owners. O'Day changed hands multiple times in the 80's as the company was going downhill. They were part of Bangor-Punta, then Pearson bought them, and I think at least one other owner was in there. One can only guess what became of their design capability and manufacturing quality systems during all these transitions.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
When I last had the bottom painted, the keel had a bit of a "wobble" -- I could move the keel side to side about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch? Is that normal? The boatyard guy said, "Don't worry about it. It's not going any where."
Sorry, the boatyard guy is an idiot. I hate to ruin your season but you're not going anywhere. As you say, the keel might be. I assume that, by "wobble", you mean the keel is moving and the fiberglass isn't. If it is just overall flexing of the keel stub and hull bottom panel and the metal / glass joint is tight, it probably won't fall off right away (or ever) but wear your PFD's and stay close to help. Time for a good surveyor.

I have almost zero experience designing fiberglass structures but have been designing in nearly every other material for four decades, including keels (none of which have fallen off) and I have a basic knowledge of the strength of fiberglass. I wish I could freely express what I feel when I look at these pictures but, as a professional, I have to be a little more careful when there are big companies involved.

It's the CW all over again. I'm sure that calculations of the leverage when heeled, hydrostatic forces, etc., would demonstrate that the structure is sufficiently strong with some margin for workmanship variation and material degredation with time. It may even meet some published standard such as the ABS yacht rules. There is probably some grounding, improper trailering, or poor storage practices somewhere in the boat's history as well. After all, most of the keels on these boats have not fallen off.

There is more to engineering than numbers, however. This is the most critical part of a sailboat's structure. The bottom of the keel stub laminate is right next to a chunk of lead. This part of the boat could have been made even 2 - 3" thick with no measurable effect on the boat's weight, stability, and performance by shaving a small amount off the lead keel. The labor cost of making this area thick enough to withstand almost any grounding or other abuse would have been negligible.

There are places where performance, cost, and low injury threat of probable failure mode may justify making the structure light enough that some failures will be experienced due to service factors. The keel stub is not one of them
 
Apr 28, 2005
267
Oday 302 Lake Perry, KS
Haul the boat, drop the keel?

Roger, thanks. What does "it's the CW all over again" mean -- I'm a bit lost there.

I sense the advice is to haul the boat, drop the keel and see how much thickness I have on the keel stub? Is that right?

If my stub is 1/4" thick -- clearly that would need to be built up. But what would likely be a correct thickness: 3/4"....1 inch? 2 inches?

Assuming the keel bolts are long enough to accommodate the additional thickness, is it then a relatively simple matter of re-installing the keel over the new, thicker stub, tightening down the nuts and sailing with a lot more confidence that disaster might not be around the corner?

Thanks.
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
My J24 trailer jackstands allow the boat to be lifted on the the trailer and shakeing the keel results in moving the whole boat the keel does NOT move


Jboats also has a long history of keel sumps wearing out with programs to beef-up the 105/109 sumps

The J80 sumps have failed twice with one boat making it back to Jboats and they claimed the boat just wore oue out (1994 boat) and they have NOT offered a way to beef the J80 up and advised the owners to check it and figure it out IF its lose :(
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,884
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
I agree that the layup looks a bit thin.. but what I think I see is a pretty gross lamination failure, some of it pretty old.. I’d bet that this keel “wobbled” for a while before leaving the general vicinity! In the second and third pictures, the variations in color and texture, especially between the laminate layers, around the places where the plates pulled through, would tend to indicate that the bond had failed in the past. A pretty good impact could do that as well as poor workmanship in the layup. I think if I had one of these, I’d check the stub to keel joint religiously and at first sign of cracks in the fairing compound, pull the keel and have the stub checked for lamination failure. While there, I think I’d reinforce the stub floor all the way back to the bilge turn with a few more layers of epoxy/glass, paying particular attention to the corner where the floor of the stub meets the vertical wall. Yes, someone with lots of ‘glass expertise should be consulted on the repair. I am curious if the O’day 280 has that same design? Last month, I participated in a pretty long delivery of a 280, some of it pretty far (90 miles) offshore.. this post made me a bit concerned!.. Structurally, the boat seemed OK but my quick inspection could have missed lots of things that might be known to a real surveyor, especially one familiar with the boat.
I disagree that “bolt on keels” are bad.. I think a properly designed one is just fine. It seems that the best have an integral partial flange cast in at the top which gives it a much bigger footprint to bear upon.. Nope, these aren’t the high aspect ratio blades that are popular in racing circles