mast step lag bolt broke

[GDTRFB]

So i was doing some maintenance and noticed the lag bolt that goes through the mast step into the compression post was rusty...So i was going to remove that lag bolt and replace with stainless. the lag bolt sheared off flush with the deck....now what? I also have a through bolt forward of the lag bolt. should i not worry about it and just use the one through bolt with some 5200 to glue down the mast step?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[sinnettc]

It goes into the compression post? Any way to to get it out? I sure wouldn't trust the tabernacle not to shift with just one bolt.

On my Capri 22 I have two through bolts, one forward and one aft of the center of the tabernacle. They bolt to a tang that sticks out from the forward part of the compression post.

 

[caguy]

Why wouldn't you drill it out and use an easy out to remove it. Just make sure you use heavy grease on th bit so the carbon steel chips stick to it and don't go flying all over your deck. If that fails consider drilling a couple of smaller holes along side the center one and use two smaller lag screws to hold it in place.

 

[Bilbo]

I would replace this issue with SS.
You may want to consider this:
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1711&ParentCat=18

 

[GDTRFB]

I was able to get vice grips on the remaining bolt, it broke off just below the deck. Doesn't look like enough the lag could be easy out. How difficult is it to remove the compression post? I know I could get it out then.
Paul

 

[GorillaToast]

It's real easy w/o the lag bolt in there. With it...?

Nothing holds the square bottom to the keel trunk; at least it didn't on mine.
You have to remove the screws holding the lower bulkhead to the post, and the ones on top holding the trim ring to the roof.

You could probably use a rubber mallet to knock the bottom out after the ring is loose, but you're gonna rip the bolt hole's threads out at a minimum, and probably bend the lag bolt and elongate the hole thru the roof. If you do manage to get it out that way, you might have to go with a 5/16 ths 5" bolt to make it secure again.

Whatever you do, don't fill the post's hole with epoxy and redrill it. The epoxy won't give like wood does when you chase new threads with the new lag bolt, and your post might split longitudinally like mine did. That fix was another whole story.

Good luck.
Bill

 

[GDTRFB]

Perfect, Thanks G Toast.

 

[GDTRFB]

Okay, so compression post came out easy enough. The remaining lag busted off again when I was attempting removal...This is an obvious problem because there was another rusted out lag bolt in the top of the post. I was thinking, why not epoxy in a threaded stainless insert, then use a stainless bolt instead of a lag bolt? Apply some never seize and it should be good for a long time. Thoughts? Anyone else do this.

Thanks,
Paul

 

[caguy]

Here is a nice job done on Judy' B's Bijou, one of my favorite boats using ss inserts.

http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/mast-step-install.htm

 

[jfrench]

I use left-handed cobalt drill bits when I need to remove a broken screw. Here's an example:
http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-10-Piec...ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1334535074&sr=1-6

The left-hand thread won't drive the screw in tighter and the cobalt alloy allows the bit to cut well into the hard steel of the screw.

 

[GDTRFB]

There was no chance removing the old rusted lag from the post with an easy out, it had been epoxied in there. I did what i could to drill around the lag, then used a steamer with a fine point to isolate some steam in the hole around the lag. Softening the wood was the trick. I then got it to budge with a vice gripe and it came out. So instead of filling the hole with a dowel or epoxy and re-lagging, I went the threaded insert route. I found a brass insert that accepts a 5/16" bolt. I drilled out the hole as straight as i could, test fitted the threaded insert a few times (the insert also was threaded to screw into wood) and then epoxied the insert into the post.

I am hoping this will be the end of this problem for some time to come!

Paul

 

[GDTRFB]

Okay, last question on this topic of my busted lag bolt.

Should I use butyl tape or 5200 to resecure the mast step plate to the deck? It appears to be sealed with 5200 upon removal due to the insanely secure nature that was presented.

I am leaning towards the butyl method as mentioned by Maine Sails:

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117172

 

[Stu Jackson]

gd, you'll also note that Maine Sail calls 5200 "Satan's Glue" -- if ya ever wanna get it out again, use butyl.

 

[GorillaToast]

There was no chance removing the old rusted lag from the post with an easy out, it had been epoxied in there. I did what i could to drill around the lag, then used a steamer with a fine point to isolate some steam in the hole around the lag. Softening the wood was the trick. I then got it to budge with a vice gripe and it came out. So instead of filling the hole with a dowel or epoxy and re-lagging, I went the threaded insert route. I found a brass insert that accepts a 5/16" bolt. I drilled out the hole as straight as i could, test fitted the threaded insert a few times (the insert also was threaded to screw into wood) and then epoxied the insert into the post.

I am hoping this will be the end of this problem for some time to come!

Paul

I've not had good luck with brass inserts in the past. It's a very soft metal, and susceptible to breaking easily. You might want to think about replacing them with stainless steel inserts.

 

[CaptGregg]

Hey Gorilla Toast, can you now expound on your post splitting longitudinally repair? I got a longitudinal crack along my center post, I've been meaning to snap a shot of it and post a question about it.

 

[CaptGregg]

As you can see from the attached pics, the PO had some twine wrapped around the top portion of the post, I don't know if he did this to keep the post from splitting more or if he was using this to hang a curtain between the V berth and the main salon.

Is this worth worrying about? Is the split bad enough to need repair/replacement?

 

[GorillaToast]

Looks just like mine.

I was worried enough about that split that I took action, even tho no one could tell me yay or nay about whether it was a potential dismasting waiting to happen.

My split was caused because I filled the stripped-out hole with epoxy and redrilled it. What I didn't know, was that apparently wood fibers compress when the threads of a lag bolt go thru them, whereas epxoy does not. The pressure created had to be relieved somewhenre, and the weakest point was the glue joint where the turning block had been laid up.

To fix it, I first drilled out the hole to 3/4", and glued in an ash dowel plug to accept the lag bolt. Then to repair the crack, I counterbored several holes perpendicular across the glue line, worked epoxy into the crack, and snugged it back together using drywall screws. 5/16" teak plugs filled the counterbores.

Hope it hold together when I get the boat in the water next month.

Please let us know how yours turns out.

GT

 

[Bilbo]

Please allow me to reiterate reading the link that I supplied above. This may appear to be for a different issue (Dropping the mast) but the writing on the link supplies the Catalina Direct suggested fix for this very issue. I would also suggest that the compression post be clamped to close any cracks and sealed from any water intrusion with an epoxy coating that soaks into the wood a bit. Then pre-drilling the hole in the post for the lag bolt is a necessity to prevent cracking the post again. The primary concern isn't necessarily with ordinary sailing situations as the lag bolt is there to prevent the base of the mast from sliding sideways while the mast is being pulled down towards the compression post with great force by the stays, shrouds and lines. I would think that the real issue is when we raise or lower the mast as then the base of the mast may be pushing/pulling in any of a number of directions (including upwards) on the lag bolt. I'd also mention again to waterproof the post while it's off as well as soaking some epoxy into the through-hole on the cabin top because the fiberglass cabin is sandwiched around plywood that can rot. There was no reason why a lag bolt should have rusted in a lake environment unless it was replaced with one that wasn't stainless.

From CD
"
Often, during this sort of incident, the strength of the lag screw through the deck and compression post is compromised. So the kit includes an extra long lag bolt to accommodate the thickness of the shim and reach 1" deeper into the compression post. A 1" longer than stock through bolt w/nut & washer, high strength sealant & 1" high plastic shim with tapered sides for a clean, original looking installation.
Dimensions: 3" X 5-1/4" X 1" high
Caution: If the lag bolt threads in the teak are stripped, you will also need the epoxy kit offered below. Fill the old hole in the deck and compression post with the epoxy and let it cure. Re-drill the hole and mount the new mast step using the sealant included in the kit. Regardless if the threads are stripped or not, remember to drill a pilot hole deep enough to accommodate the 4-1/2" long lag screw (1" deeper than the original lag screw). Installing the longer lag screw without the appropriate pilot hole might split the teak compression post."

 

[GDTRFB]

I've not had good luck with brass inserts in the past. It's a very soft metal, and susceptible to breaking easily. You might want to think about replacing them with stainless steel inserts.

I tested the strength of my brass insert with a torque wrench, I went up to 28 ftlbs with out issue. I doubt when I tighten down the step it will be any more that. Either way, it will be easy enough to drill out the brass insert and replace if it is warrented. Between the through bolt and my new bolt and insert, My step plate is going to be substantially more secure than it has been in the past with a rusted out and loose lag bolt.

I am also using a spacer, but instead of the CD kit, the previous owner used to two pieces of teak between the plate and step, I have replaced this with 1" UHMW. CD's kit is a joke for $28. $3 for a bolt and lag screw and $5 for a piece of UHMW or cutting board is all you need.

 

[CaptGregg]

Does anybody know if you can get another post? That sounds easier than all this drilling, backing out, epoxying insert, etc....