Dave says my goal posts are too long. Maybe so but I never lose sight of them.
Difficulty loading my '85 Hunter 23 properly on trailer.
- Thread starter Tallgrass Sailor
- Start date
Mine are 10' long...when the back of my 27" trailer is in 6'-7' of water I still have 4'-5' sticking out... Which is just a bit above my freeboard...
They are also angled forward slightly so when the trailer is tilted down the slope of the ramp...they stick straight up.
They are also removable for transport down the road, being stored with the ladder alongside the keel...
They are flexible at that length and will not damage or "force" the boat in place, but by lining up between them, and the winch as a target, I can drive my boat onto the trailer...the keel guides grab and do the final lineup about 6' out and the boat settles "into" the sloped curved bunks...stopping about 18" from the winch...
I hop out of the boat...attach the winch strap and crank in the final 6" till the boat is locked in position...
Then I drive out...the whole thing is done single handedly and only takes minutes... I launch and land my 27', 7000# sailboat in less time then most guys can their 18'-20' fishing boats...
Rollers suck...Bunks and keel guids are the way.
They are also angled forward slightly so when the trailer is tilted down the slope of the ramp...they stick straight up.
They are also removable for transport down the road, being stored with the ladder alongside the keel...
They are flexible at that length and will not damage or "force" the boat in place, but by lining up between them, and the winch as a target, I can drive my boat onto the trailer...the keel guides grab and do the final lineup about 6' out and the boat settles "into" the sloped curved bunks...stopping about 18" from the winch...
I hop out of the boat...attach the winch strap and crank in the final 6" till the boat is locked in position...
Then I drive out...the whole thing is done single handedly and only takes minutes... I launch and land my 27', 7000# sailboat in less time then most guys can their 18'-20' fishing boats...
Rollers suck...Bunks and keel guids are the way.
I tie my bow line (25') to my ladder rack...UN hook the winch strap...back down the ramp...
At a predetermined point the boat floats free of the trailer (basicly 6" further back then when I retrieve)
Don't go so fast the boat takes off without you...just sits there waiting...
I get out of truck...casually walk to back of truck... I can reach the ladder rack/bow line from the pier...untie, flip over goal post and fasten to pier cleat...walk a few feet back and secure mid ship line...
Back into the truck...pull out and park...and walk back to boat...
That took what...? 5 minutes...?
The guy with the fishing boat is still yelling at his wife while "she" backs the trailer in....I can never figure out why the guy just doesn't back in himself...
At a predetermined point the boat floats free of the trailer (basicly 6" further back then when I retrieve)
Don't go so fast the boat takes off without you...just sits there waiting...
I get out of truck...casually walk to back of truck... I can reach the ladder rack/bow line from the pier...untie, flip over goal post and fasten to pier cleat...walk a few feet back and secure mid ship line...
Back into the truck...pull out and park...and walk back to boat...
That took what...? 5 minutes...?
The guy with the fishing boat is still yelling at his wife while "she" backs the trailer in....I can never figure out why the guy just doesn't back in himself...
Your ramp may be part of what makes your work easier than most. I'm with you that it doesn't have to be difficult but I've been there done that with bad ramps. @Crazy Dave Condon saw my ramp from hell several years ago. I have a ramp sent from heaven now.
Yes, the ramp is "part" of it...
But then again, having the trailer set up properly to recieve the boat is a bigger part of the equation...
Why fight the trailer...bow roller in the way, nothing to catch and guide the keel, roller assembly's that flip and flop and do "nothing" to assist in loading and centering boat...no goal posts so you can't even "find" the trailer in the water....
You shouldn't have to get wet ever, to load or unload load (unless there is no pier, but then again with my system I could have someone in the boat when I launch and they could drive away to docking spot from ramp...still no one gets wet...)
But then again, having the trailer set up properly to recieve the boat is a bigger part of the equation...
Why fight the trailer...bow roller in the way, nothing to catch and guide the keel, roller assembly's that flip and flop and do "nothing" to assist in loading and centering boat...no goal posts so you can't even "find" the trailer in the water....
You shouldn't have to get wet ever, to load or unload load (unless there is no pier, but then again with my system I could have someone in the boat when I launch and they could drive away to docking spot from ramp...still no one gets wet...)
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I absolutely agree. Just wanted to make sure others in my former situation understand the variables.
There are questions that tgrass is going to respond back but until then I will defer comment as there are many aspects to the problem. One is the ramp which he answered is not steep but moderate and the ramp is level sideways, not tilting.
On the tilting ramp sideways to include taking boats out when the water is high up on the road tilted as well above the ramp, the simple solution to get the boat on straight is to load the boat up on the high side of the trailer and it will settle down straight when pulled out. That is not the case in the original post.
Dennis also hit on a good point but might as well as discuss that now. First with the original post, the winch strap coming out must not be able to interfere in the path of travel not to rub against anything which is why I questioned the strap coming out on the bottom when coming out. If that is happening reverse the strap on the winch.
Tgrass also advised on new carpet and here I need to say one piece, not several scraps I have seen and needs to be outdoor and smooth.
The original photo shows a post coming up with a roller. That was factory installed and I removed that when a boat came in. I found that it hindered winching the boat up. It was on there to avoid hitting the crossbar of the trailer frame right in front of the winch stand. I elected to put a plate with roller to lower that down so the bow would not hit the frame. I have also seen delrin plastic used as well secured will and with the bolt heads not protruding from the delrin.
Now to address Dennis suggestion to include raising the struts or supports for the bunk boards. One of my questions was the swing keel (1 of 10 made on the 23 this way), did it clear the keel tray all the way or is it pushing down on the keel tray. If pushing down, those supports have to be raised so any swing keel is not being stopped by a keel tray when loading up from the water onto the trailer. With fixed keels I added rollers on the keel tray to help move the boat along on it as the fixed keels, the weight of the boats are on the keel, not the bunk boards whereas the swing keel boats are supported by the bunk boards. Dennis suggested raising the supports which I concur but make sure that the boat is level on the trailer when doing so as not to make the back of the masts higher on the back which might hit something when trailering.
There are other items that are on the market to put on the keel trays and bunk boards which might help.
However, in most cases the bow of the boat will not rest exactly where it should be. Why? The trailer is at a down angle while the boat being level on the water is being loaded up which is why I taught my customers the "bump technique." However there are roller style trailers which is out on the market and work great for getting the boat all the way up onto the trailer. However there are several cautions. Make sure when the boat is all the way up, lock the winch and also tie a line around the winch handle to the winch post so if the brake failed you have a back up. Also be sure that the boat is in the water and have a secure grip on the handle because the boat will roll off at an angle which I have always urged caution. In addition with roller style trailers, insure that a strap is over the cockpit but also the straps are led forward on the trailer some to insure the boat cannot roll backwards on the rollers. A good example is the trailer built specifically for the Catalina 22 Sport trailer by Roadking which one can even motor the boat onto the trailer. I was there when the trailer was designed.
As to guide on supports, if they are not straight up but angled out, that needs to be corrected to keep them from catching on something. In addition, if the posts are not long enough and a good example if the ramp is steep, they will catch under the deck to hull joint and a good example was Rgranger when I helped him trying to load his boat up as the ramp was too steep. Should it get caught under that, either the post and/or the boat will sustanin damage. In another case the posts were leaning out and the plastic portion too high as seen on Kermit's H 260. I straightened them out but suggested that he chop down the plastic pipes.
One other thing to consider is to check that the center supports for the bunk boards are all the way up so the bunk board in that position in the middle are also supporting the hull as well as many boat owners forget to do that.
Ok, my hands are now hurting and there is a lot to consider. I hope this helps
On the tilting ramp sideways to include taking boats out when the water is high up on the road tilted as well above the ramp, the simple solution to get the boat on straight is to load the boat up on the high side of the trailer and it will settle down straight when pulled out. That is not the case in the original post.
Dennis also hit on a good point but might as well as discuss that now. First with the original post, the winch strap coming out must not be able to interfere in the path of travel not to rub against anything which is why I questioned the strap coming out on the bottom when coming out. If that is happening reverse the strap on the winch.
Tgrass also advised on new carpet and here I need to say one piece, not several scraps I have seen and needs to be outdoor and smooth.
The original photo shows a post coming up with a roller. That was factory installed and I removed that when a boat came in. I found that it hindered winching the boat up. It was on there to avoid hitting the crossbar of the trailer frame right in front of the winch stand. I elected to put a plate with roller to lower that down so the bow would not hit the frame. I have also seen delrin plastic used as well secured will and with the bolt heads not protruding from the delrin.
Now to address Dennis suggestion to include raising the struts or supports for the bunk boards. One of my questions was the swing keel (1 of 10 made on the 23 this way), did it clear the keel tray all the way or is it pushing down on the keel tray. If pushing down, those supports have to be raised so any swing keel is not being stopped by a keel tray when loading up from the water onto the trailer. With fixed keels I added rollers on the keel tray to help move the boat along on it as the fixed keels, the weight of the boats are on the keel, not the bunk boards whereas the swing keel boats are supported by the bunk boards. Dennis suggested raising the supports which I concur but make sure that the boat is level on the trailer when doing so as not to make the back of the masts higher on the back which might hit something when trailering.
There are other items that are on the market to put on the keel trays and bunk boards which might help.
However, in most cases the bow of the boat will not rest exactly where it should be. Why? The trailer is at a down angle while the boat being level on the water is being loaded up which is why I taught my customers the "bump technique." However there are roller style trailers which is out on the market and work great for getting the boat all the way up onto the trailer. However there are several cautions. Make sure when the boat is all the way up, lock the winch and also tie a line around the winch handle to the winch post so if the brake failed you have a back up. Also be sure that the boat is in the water and have a secure grip on the handle because the boat will roll off at an angle which I have always urged caution. In addition with roller style trailers, insure that a strap is over the cockpit but also the straps are led forward on the trailer some to insure the boat cannot roll backwards on the rollers. A good example is the trailer built specifically for the Catalina 22 Sport trailer by Roadking which one can even motor the boat onto the trailer. I was there when the trailer was designed.
As to guide on supports, if they are not straight up but angled out, that needs to be corrected to keep them from catching on something. In addition, if the posts are not long enough and a good example if the ramp is steep, they will catch under the deck to hull joint and a good example was Rgranger when I helped him trying to load his boat up as the ramp was too steep. Should it get caught under that, either the post and/or the boat will sustanin damage. In another case the posts were leaning out and the plastic portion too high as seen on Kermit's H 260. I straightened them out but suggested that he chop down the plastic pipes.
One other thing to consider is to check that the center supports for the bunk boards are all the way up so the bunk board in that position in the middle are also supporting the hull as well as many boat owners forget to do that.
Ok, my hands are now hurting and there is a lot to consider. I hope this helps
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That is strange.... Dave told me I needed longer ones on mine...
But seriously, I have an issue with the top of my goal posts catching under the gunwale as I start up the ramp. So I think mine need to be about 6" longer.
I'll send you the 6" I cut off from mine.That is strange.... Dave told me I needed longer ones on mine...
But seriously, I have an issue with the top of my goal posts catching under the gunwale as I start up the ramp. So I think mine need to be about 6" longer.
The ramp that rgranger takes his boat out is very steep contributing to the reason why the suggestion of longer ones. I have known about that ramp for over 45 years knowing it was steep with overhead wires .
I had this boat with swing keel from 2006 to 2013 and very familiar with the issue! My solution was generally to run a heavy strap from the winch post back around the keel and up to the post again. With that nice and tight, the amount of "brake check" to get the boat to slide up was minimal.
I thought about this problem a lot - but there isn't a "good solution" persay. The two good options (and one bad one) would be
1) Set up the bow post with two positions. You'd haul out with it forward and then pin it in the rear hole for trailering.
2) A nice keel roller system, one that would allow the boat to "rotate" on the winch post as you drive out of the water. Right now the boat rotates where the front edge of the keel hits the trailer as you drive out.
3)Cutting away the forward portion of the keel support might also help, but I never got that brave.
I thought about this problem a lot - but there isn't a "good solution" persay. The two good options (and one bad one) would be
1) Set up the bow post with two positions. You'd haul out with it forward and then pin it in the rear hole for trailering.
2) A nice keel roller system, one that would allow the boat to "rotate" on the winch post as you drive out of the water. Right now the boat rotates where the front edge of the keel hits the trailer as you drive out.
3)Cutting away the forward portion of the keel support might also help, but I never got that brave.
Brian, you were lucky not to damage the boat or hurt yourself by winching that way with the strap around the backside of the keel. I have seen the boats damaged that way as well a couple of folks get hurt. I do recall where one owner doing that got his face too close to the winch handle and that got away from him with the handle hitting him in the face knocking him out. There was a lawsuit and he lost trying to say loading the boat was unsafe. I am all for whatever helps the person getting the boat loaded easily his way but when I see a potential for damage but most important someone getting hurt, I will point out what I know or have seen.
As for the rollers, good idea but extra caution. When launching, make sure the trailer is far enough back into the water so there is no long travel of that boat or it will get away from you going in too fast with concern of the winch handle too much getting out of control due to weight here and also the other person holding onto the line attached to the boat and vice versa when loading. Just keep your face away from that winch handle.
Not sure when you say: "Right now the boat rotates where the front edge of the keel hits the trailer as you drive out."
Are you saying that the leading edge of the hits the back brace of the trailer when trying to pull out. If so that may be the issue as you are not getting the trailer back far enough into the water which I doubt but could be the bunk board supports are too low. In addition when the boat is on the trailer have you looked into the boat resting on the bunk boards to include the middle stalks are supporting the bunk board up against the hull and the ends of the bunk boards are not curling up into the hull? Ok I am grasping here but trying to figure out. I am coming back to my days as an investigator prior to being a dealer.
As for the rollers, good idea but extra caution. When launching, make sure the trailer is far enough back into the water so there is no long travel of that boat or it will get away from you going in too fast with concern of the winch handle too much getting out of control due to weight here and also the other person holding onto the line attached to the boat and vice versa when loading. Just keep your face away from that winch handle.
Not sure when you say: "Right now the boat rotates where the front edge of the keel hits the trailer as you drive out."
Are you saying that the leading edge of the hits the back brace of the trailer when trying to pull out. If so that may be the issue as you are not getting the trailer back far enough into the water which I doubt but could be the bunk board supports are too low. In addition when the boat is on the trailer have you looked into the boat resting on the bunk boards to include the middle stalks are supporting the bunk board up against the hull and the ends of the bunk boards are not curling up into the hull? Ok I am grasping here but trying to figure out. I am coming back to my days as an investigator prior to being a dealer.
Squidd;
I am not a naval architect but merely a history major from VMI. However as a dealer, I was very active trying to figure out solutions to make sailing easier and safer and went out of the way asking questions, trying different things, inventing, and the list goes on with a lot of contributions to manufacturing. I go back to my investigative days as an adjuster and then later as a reconstruction expert figuring what caused the issues to include being trapped underground for several days when the coal mine roof collapsed on three mine investigators and myself investigating several deaths of coal miners..
Looking back, I spoke about the trailer guide ons either not long enough or too long. Rgranger can attest to what happened when I was trying to load his H 26 onto the trailer as those guides were getting caught under the hull to deck joint but the issue was due to the steep angle of that ramp which I used appx 45 years ago for the first time. As for Kermit, his trailer guide was angled out and I reset that due to the angle was sticking out too far. When I see something like that I do have to comment so the boat and trailer are not damaged so the owner will not be held liable and most of all no one is hurt.
Like I said, I have seen too much in my life time too include death. I have experienced more than most will ever in many lifetimes.
I am not a naval architect but merely a history major from VMI. However as a dealer, I was very active trying to figure out solutions to make sailing easier and safer and went out of the way asking questions, trying different things, inventing, and the list goes on with a lot of contributions to manufacturing. I go back to my investigative days as an adjuster and then later as a reconstruction expert figuring what caused the issues to include being trapped underground for several days when the coal mine roof collapsed on three mine investigators and myself investigating several deaths of coal miners..
Looking back, I spoke about the trailer guide ons either not long enough or too long. Rgranger can attest to what happened when I was trying to load his H 26 onto the trailer as those guides were getting caught under the hull to deck joint but the issue was due to the steep angle of that ramp which I used appx 45 years ago for the first time. As for Kermit, his trailer guide was angled out and I reset that due to the angle was sticking out too far. When I see something like that I do have to comment so the boat and trailer are not damaged so the owner will not be held liable and most of all no one is hurt.
Like I said, I have seen too much in my life time too include death. I have experienced more than most will ever in many lifetimes.
How does that happen? If I'm cranking my winch in, the ratchet prevents the handle from spinning backwards.
A third or more of the boat's weight is on the keel. If one puts rollers under the keel at the right height, the boat should scoot reasonably easy on the bunks. Another cheap solution would be to put a plank on top of your existing planks right where the keel sits. Put thick grease between the two planks so the top plank can scoot forward those last two inches. You can cut slots in the plank, so it can be bolted down and still slide.