Difficulty loading my '85 Hunter 23 properly on trailer.

[Tallgrass Sailor]

I'm having issues with loading my 198 Hunter 23 (swing-keel) on the trailer. With the boat floating, winching the boat forward to get the bow into bow blocks results in the bow eye running hard into the lower bow block. The winch strap hook pulls at a right angle to the bow eye on the upper bow eye leg. When the boat trailer is pulled out of the water the winch strap realigns to the bow eye and bow is out of the bow blocks by 6 inches or more.
FWIW: Ususally the trailer in in deep enough water barely submerge the bow roller winching to the bow into the blocks.
Q. Are the bunk heights all messed up i.e. too low? Or other ideas to get the boat on the trailer so the bow is actually on the bow roller and in the bow blocks?
Q. Do anyone know what make this trailer would be? It has the built-in tongue extension.
Thanks in advance,

Brad

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

There are several questions that need to be asked for a better evaluation. With your swing keel which is 1 of the 10 produced with this type of keel, here we go:
1. Is the winch strap coming out from the bottom of the winch.
2. Photo of the ramp being used where the boat is being retrieved.
3. With the swing keel up, does there appear to be any pressure on the keel bolt with the boat resting on the bunk boards.
4. Is the ranp in question tilted in any way? I am not talking about the angle of the ramp going down into the water as the
requested photo will show that.
5. Is this the first time you have retrieved the boat onto the trailer.

I would appreciate the photos and questions being answered as there are several variables here.

 

[rgranger]

Dave

Regarding Question #1.... I can see the strap an it is coming from the bottom of the winch.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I thought so but wanted to be sure. I am still waiting for the requested information but this is a different keel from the standard wing keel on the 23. Only 10 of those style swing keels were produced. I had one of the first of the wing keel so I know the boat

 

[Squidd]

Remove the bow block and post and make it removable...hinged would be nice.

Boat bow will always come in low as boat is level in water and trailer is tilted down do to ramp...

Winch boat up to where it should be, (withih a couple inchs) pull trailer out of water until boat settles into/onto bunks/rollers...

Replace removable bow block and post..winch tight for transport.

 

[Daveinet]

I don't have a pivot, so I end up with the same problem. I just accelerate pretty good when I pull up the ramp and then slam on the brakes. The boat scoots forward right where it needs to be.

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

This is a common problem with lots of trailerable sailboats, including my 23.5. The trouble lies in the fact that the trailer is set up to carry the boat Bow High; however while when loading it comes on to the trailer which is sloped down hill on the ramp but the boat is sitting level in the water. This creates a Bow Low condition in relation to the trailer. You winch the boat up to the chock which is now hitting the stem too high. Because the stem is sloped, the higher the chock hits the stem, the further aft the boat is on the trailer. As you pull the boat from the water the boat tilts aft to match the angle of the trailer on the ramp and the bow chock and stem separate as the geometry changes.
The permanent solution is to redo the struts for the bunks so that the boat sits lower in the bow at the approximate angle the boat in the water meets the trailer.
I added rollers to my trailer but they only work if I have them adjusted fairly high and drive the boat on but its too easy to damage things if the wind is contrary.
If you have crew with you when you load try having all your extras stand in the cockpit while the boat is being winched up. This should help tip the boat aft and match the trailer angle.
Dennis

 

[rgranger]

I don't have a pivot, so I end up with the same problem. I just accelerate pretty good when I pull up the ramp and then slam on the brakes. The boat scoots forward right where it needs to be.

The classic trailer sailor "BUMP"

 

[rgranger]

If you have crew with you when you load try having all your extras stand in the cockpit while the boat is being winched up. This should help tip the boat aft and match the trailer angle.
Dennis

Hmmmm.... that seems like a good use of crew

 

[isaksp00]

Same problem with my non-centerboard 23. From your photo, the two versions seem to have about the same draft. I have not solved it, but Dennis describes the geometry problem well. Since I store my boat in a yard across the street from the ramp, the yard guys haul it using a tractor, and there is no need to push it right up to the rollers/blocks (max speed of tractor is maybe 5 MPH).
But, that said, I might sometime try using a really robust ratchet tiedown strap I have, where the webbing strap is maybe 2 in wide and quite thick. Those are maybe 10 bucks. If you have one of these, and don't want to try the "slam on the brakes" approach, maybe loop the strap around the rear of the keel (you have the centerboard in the way, which I don't) and some place forward on the trailer frame. The big ratchet handle just might have enough strength to slide it the 4 in or so forward. Next time you launch it, you may want to add carpet or maybe even a slippery board like Trex under the keel, to facilitate sliding. If you try the strap, let us know if it works.

 

[rgranger]

.... The big ratchet handle just might have enough strength to slide it the 4 in or so forward. Next time you launch it, you may want to add carpet or maybe even a slippery board like Trex under the keel, to facilitate sliding. If you try the strap, let us know if it works.

Worth a try but don't get too carried away... you might pull the bow eye out.

 

[isaksp00]

I would NOT try to this this by yanking on the bow eye. If I used that 2 in strap approach, I'd pull the boat forward by looping it around the back of the keel.
The yard guys loosened my bow eye (repaired by me using thickened epoxy) by tightening too much on the trailer winch strap in an attempt to haul it up to the rubber chocks. As described by Dennis, the boat then rotates the stern down and the bow backwards as you pull the trailer up the ramp and the hull settles on the bunks. That puts a lot of strain on the eye. I always have to "convince" them to not try to pull the boat right up to the trailer chock.

 

[Daveinet]

Geometrically, the problem is that you are not backing the trailer far enough into the water. This results in the tongue being too high compared to the floating height of the bow. This forces you to try to lift the bow to the height of the trailer, which doesn't work very well because of the angle of the trailer. If you are able to put the trailer tongue deeper into the water, it will be underneath the bow, and it won't need to lift the bow up. If you do not have a good 4WD or at least front wheel drive, I'd be leery of solving the problem the "right" way, otherwise it will make another good Youtube statistic. If you have a Jeep, you will be OK in 22 inches of water, which means submersing the rear axle. I'd always keep the front tires on dry ground.

 

[Tallgrass Sailor]

There are several questions that need to be asked for a better evaluation. With your swing keel which is 1 of the 10 produced with this type of keel, here we go:
1. Is the winch strap coming out from the bottom of the winch.
2. Photo of the ramp being used where the boat is being retrieved.
3. With the swing keel up, does there appear to be any pressure on the keel bolt with the boat resting on the bunk boards.
4. Is the ranp in question tilted in any way? I am not talking about the angle of the ramp going down into the water as the
requested photo will show that.
5. Is this the first time you have retrieved the boat onto the trailer.

I would appreciate the photos and questions being answered as there are several variables here.

Dave,
Q1. Winch strap is wrapped around the drum to come out of the top of the winch.
Q2. A. Don't have picture currently available, I will take one next time at the lake. FWIW: the ramp is a at moderate slope, nothing I consider steep.
Q3. A. Not sure how know if there is pressure on the keel bolt. But there is no visible deformation in the cabin sole around the keel bolts. ?
Q. 4. No, the ramp is basically level one edge to the other edge.
Q. 5. A. No, I have done it 6 - 7 times on the same ramp.

Brad

 

[Tallgrass Sailor]

Worth a try but don't get too carried away... you might pull the bow eye out.

I have tried indoor/outdoor carpet on the boards and winched the strap as tight as I dare. The boat didn't budge.

 

[Tallgrass Sailor]

Geometrically, the problem is that you are not backing the trailer far enough into the water. This results in the tongue being too high compared to the floating height of the bow. This forces you to try to lift the bow to the height of the trailer, which doesn't work very well because of the angle of the trailer. If you are able to put the trailer tongue deeper into the water, it will be underneath the bow, and it won't need to lift the bow up. If you do not have a good 4WD or at least front wheel drive, I'd be leery of solving the problem the "right" way, otherwise it will make another good Youtube statistic. If you have a Jeep, you will be OK in 22 inches of water, which means submersing the rear axle. I'd always keep the front tires on dry ground.

What you suggest is what my fell club member said I needed to do.This is probably the first thing I'll try next. Which can be done without too much trouble as the club has an 18 foot extension bar and I'll extend the tongue on the trailer as well. FWIW: the boat is back in the water until I figure this out.

 

[Tallgrass Sailor]

Dave

Regarding Question #1.... I can see the strap an it is coming from the bottom of the winch.

Dave,
You know, you are correct. Well, that's the way should be, correct?

Brad

 

[Squidd]

Geometrically, the problem is that you are not backing the trailer far enough into the water. This results in the tongue being too high compared to the floating height of the bow. This forces you to try to lift the bow to the height of the trailer, which doesn't work very well because of the angle of the trailer. If you are able to put the trailer tongue deeper into the water, it will be underneath the bow, and it won't need to lift the bow up. If you do not have a good 4WD or at least front wheel drive, I'd be leery of solving the problem the "right" way, otherwise it will make another good Youtube statistic. If you have a Jeep, you will be OK in 22 inches of water, which means submersing the rear axle. I'd always keep the front tires on dry ground.

You could back the trailer in deeper so the bow lines up with the bow roller...

But then is the boat located and centered on the trailer, or just floating loose side to side when you pull out...Unless you have a way to locate boat over trailer (keel guides, goal posts) it's a hit or miss situation.

Most people keep the trailer just deep enough to float or guide the boat onto rollers/bunks and then winch the last couple inches...

Not to mention the hassle of sinking the truck, trailer extensions, etc...

I suggest just getting bow roller out of the way until you need it for transport.

 

[rgranger]

As Squidd suggested, goal posts are a good thing to add, I have them on my H26 trailer... unfortunately, I don't have pics of mh H26 on a trailer but here is a pic of my previous boat and it also had "goal posts". If you get goal posts, make them a lot longer than you think you will need. These here in the pic are too short and were often submerged when I needed them most. Regarding rollers, the trailer pic (second pic below) is for a swing keel boat. I rest the keel on the rollers instead of on a board. You might consider getting something like that instead of the boards..... but I'd only make that mod. if a deeper submersion fails to fix your problem.

 

[Daveinet]

You could back the trailer in deeper so the bow lines up with the bow roller...
But then is the boat located and centered on the trailer, or just floating loose side to side when you pull out...Unless you have a way to locate boat over trailer (keel guides, goal posts) it's a hit or miss situation.

I've pulled the boat part way out, and then stopped to let the boat center. The OP does have goal posts, but they are not very tall. If he stops part way out - like just before the centerboard hits the trailer, it should work.