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Correcting fore and aft trim

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by smokey73, Jan 9, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Kermit

    Kermit

    Joined Jul 31, 2010
    2,952 posts, 444 likes
    Hunter 260
    US Sumter, SC Lake Murray Sailing Club, SC
    Doesn't look to me they're down low yet. Time will tell, though.
     


    jssailem, Justin_NSA and JRacer like this.
  2. smokey73

    smokey73

    Joined Oct 26, 2010
    343 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter 40.5
    US Beaufort, SC
    Jackdaw - agree but lets accept the fact that the generator is the key to keeping the Admiral happy. I don't intend to race except the "racing" that all sailors do when we're going the same general direction as another comparable sailboat - We're gaining on them, or We're losing ground. Let's adjust something, etc. -

    Lets also accept that there is no other reasonable place to move the generator to for this boat. There isn't room in the engine compartment and the only other place would be to sacrifice the forward head (its a cruiser, not a racer) but then that limits the comfort of friends when we cruise so that is out.

    So the generator is where it is and its here to stay. I'm not disputing that adding weight is a "less desirable" solution I just don't see another option. My batteries balance the trim athwartship with the generator installed so moving them to the midline in the bow would probably leave me with a stbd list. I can adjust trim a little by how much water I carry and where I take if from first. I don't carry it in the aft stbd water tank below the generator unless its a long cruise and then use if from there first. I use the water from the forward water tank under the V-berth last. etc. Even then I still need some adjustment. If I decide to race I can just empty all the water (110 gallon or about 800 lbs of water with full tanks) - three times the weight of the generator

    This is a 20,000 lb cruise boat and adding an additional 200 lbs isn't the same as adding the weight to your pocket rocket. I think the PHRF for this boat is about 110. I know adding weight just to trim the boat is not an "ideal" solution, but it is what it is. People always talk about the advantages of having an all chain rode for anchoring so I'm leaning that way. I'll figure out how much additional chain to add based on the experiment with the sand bags. Moving the batteries might be an option but a labor intensive one when it comes to running probably 3/0 wire down the length of a 40 ft boat plus I don't really like the idea of the batteries under the V-berth. Hard to access, possibility of gassing, structural changes to secure them, etc.

    If I asked a different question about what people think about using an all chain rode for a 20,000 lb cruise boat or a combination chain and three strand anchor rode the overwhelming answer would be all chain rode with a snubber to ease the shock load. If I go to all chain rode I may just be pretty close to neutral trim anyway like Rich has.

    Please don't think I'm getting defensive - just looking for a reasonable compromise. For me at 66, compromise to keep the Admiral happy is what it's all about!

    Of course I like the idea of the twins forward, but I think that is a no-go with the Admiral.
     


  3. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    5,961 posts, 591 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Oh no doubt! I had no intention of talking you out of making your boat more comfortable to your SO. At the end of the day, you have to focus on what's important. And indeed, if your boat ends up floating on her lines, then all good!

    Lighter is better, unless you end up sailing alone.
     


  4. smokey73

    smokey73

    Joined Oct 26, 2010
    343 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter 40.5
    US Beaufort, SC
    [QUOTE="Jackdaw,

    Lighter is better, unless you end up sailing alone.[/QUOTE]
     


  5. smokey73

    smokey73

    Joined Oct 26, 2010
    343 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter 40.5
    US Beaufort, SC
    Well said Jackdaw
     


  6. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    5,961 posts, 591 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    You're a very naughty frog. ;^)
     


    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  7. Kermit

    Kermit

    Joined Jul 31, 2010
    2,952 posts, 444 likes
    Hunter 260
    US Sumter, SC Lake Murray Sailing Club, SC
    In the words of the only woman I would leave my wife for, "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way."
     


  8. Justin_NSA

    Justin_NSA

    Joined Jul 7, 2004
    3,054 posts, 168 likes
    Hunter 30T
    US Wichita, KS
    Jessica Rabbit. Kathleen Turner had a sexy voice!

     


  9. Kermit

    Kermit

    Joined Jul 31, 2010
    2,952 posts, 444 likes
    Hunter 260
    US Sumter, SC Lake Murray Sailing Club, SC
    Jessica's "ballast" would never be low enough to help @Jackdaw with balancing his boat fore and aft.
     


  10. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    4,744 posts, 142 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    Kermit;
    I am waiting on Jackdaw to fire a broadside
     


  11. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    5,961 posts, 591 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Indeed. Every few years, she just goes in to have them 'redrawn'.

    Me, I prefer what nature drew.
     


  12. Kermit

    Kermit

    Joined Jul 31, 2010
    2,952 posts, 444 likes
    Hunter 260
    US Sumter, SC Lake Murray Sailing Club, SC
    10-4 good buddy. I'm right there with you on that one. Especially when it come to real women who aren't toons.
     


  13. Gunni

    Gunni

    Joined Mar 16, 2010
    3,311 posts, 230 likes
    Beneteau 411 Oceanis
    US Annapolis
    You do not have to move your batteries to the bow. Remember, this is a two-for-one swap; you take 200# off your stern and add 200# midships starboard. If you don't move your batteries you will need much more weight up front to off-set the trim. Move the batteries is the permanent solution. Putting mine at midship starboard, down low removed a 2.0" list to port. I was able to squeeze in some bigger AGM and +100 Ah capacity in the bargain.
     


  14. smokey73

    smokey73

    Joined Oct 26, 2010
    343 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter 40.5
    US Beaufort, SC
    I understand the 2 for one swap and stability curves. I just can't find a place on the port side to put the batteries midships. There is a water heater and two refer compressors under the port settee - just no room for the batteries. The batteries currently sit as far outboard as they can sit in the port stern lazarette and balance out the generator as far as list is concerned pretty well (The generator is as far inboard is it will sit.) Putting the batteries amidships (if I even could) for me would probably be okay for the athwartship balance, but won't do the 2 for 1 since I'm removing it from the stern but would be putting it about at the center of boyancy fore and aft. I'd only get the "credit" for the removal of the current two batteries. Its a mute point anyway since I'd have to move a lot of things to even have any room. So - short of jettisoning the Generator (and probably the wife with it) adding an all chain rode seems the "easiest" solution. I just measured and I have 100 ft of 3/8 inch G4 anchor chain.
     


  15. Gunni

    Gunni

    Joined Mar 16, 2010
    3,311 posts, 230 likes
    Beneteau 411 Oceanis
    US Annapolis
    If you add weight to the bow you are still likely to have to raise the waterline as Rich S. did. I also did that because when I go on cruise fully crewed and provisioned I sit low.
     


  16. smokey73

    smokey73

    Joined Oct 26, 2010
    343 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter 40.5
    US Beaufort, SC
    Thanks, The boat is in the boatyard for some work and will be hauled in a few days. I will probably be repainting the bottom when that happens and will add some to the bottom paint. Fully loaded I think my specs say the draft increases by 2 inches. I I'll have to check on that, I don't know if its 2 inches total or 2 inches per 1000lb load. How much did you add to account for the cruise load?
     


  17. Gunni

    Gunni

    Joined Mar 16, 2010
    3,311 posts, 230 likes
    Beneteau 411 Oceanis
    US Annapolis
    I raised my waterline 2.5"
     



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