Bilge Compression Block was Mud.

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BillyK

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Jan 24, 2010
502
Catalina 310 Ocean City, NJ
We dove into the compression block repair yesterday on our 1990. One of the previous owners did a band-aid repair by glassing in what looks like a wall to hold up the post. it was failing, so it was time to remove it. the first cut was to open up a window to see what is going on on the other side and what was found was about 5 pounds of rotted wood to the point of being mud. It was incredible... There was literally nothing holding up the compression post and i wouldn't have gone out on the water once had i known its actual condition.

I should mention, before i made the purchase i had a survey and the yard both look at this block, and they both said it was fine. My distrust of the "experts" continues to be affirmed..

At this point we have all of the original block plus the repair removed.. which included pounds and pounds of thickened epoxy.. i'll report back on the build up of the new block.. just wanted to share what i found so far..
 

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Mar 11, 2010
292
Catalina Tall Rig/ Fin Keel Deale, MD
BillyK, is the mast down? I opened up the compression post on our '84 and found a "waterline" about 2" up from the bottom of the post. Water was coming down the mast and following the wiring down into the compression block. Look back on previous threads, Old Skool Neil had a real cool idea to re-route the wiring into the head area. And I would suggest, if the mast is down, check the masthead and see if you need to make an aluminum plate to cover over the top of the sheaves.

Rob
 

BillyK

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Jan 24, 2010
502
Catalina 310 Ocean City, NJ
Mast is down.. Yes, I will definitely see how I can Limit the water getting down inside the masthead.. I'll also do all the tricks to seal the mast step too..
 
Feb 26, 2008
603
Catalina 30 Marathon, FL
I'm curious. Does anyone know if the later MKIII's have the same wood block?

If so I may want to do a little exploring this winter to confirm mine is OK.

Billy, what signs did you see that convinced you that you had a problem?

Jim
 

BillyK

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Jan 24, 2010
502
Catalina 310 Ocean City, NJ
I called Catalina and they told me all 30's were made out of wood. Not sure of the 309's though.. Hopefully they stopped with that model.

What let me know I had a problem was the smell of rot when I stuck my nose down there and the crumbling of the wood when I poked around with my fingers. The deck was starting to compress as well at the mast step..
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,771
- -- -Bayfield
There are experts and then there are experts. You didn't engage one, it appears. I would build a fiberglass (solid) piece to be fiberglassed in place instead of more wood encapsulated in glass. They did that work before the pan was placed over the hull when the boat was built. You don't have that luxury unless you cut into the floor pan and then figure out how to repair that back so it looks good. Catalina is not the only manufacture who used wood to support masts and floors and thwart keel supports. The problem is they didn't go a good job of sealing it off 100% with fiberglass so that water seeped into it, or someone drilled a hole in it to perhaps screw in a wire tie, etc. Use roving when you glass in the new block.
 

BillyK

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Jan 24, 2010
502
Catalina 310 Ocean City, NJ
Now I feel that I am an expert on the bilge block :) I think the best solution is a custom stainless steel stand under there, but cost would be high, and I believe a significant resin saturation of white oak installed and then encapsulated in more resin/fiberglass is a good solution. It should at least last another 20 years if it is inspected on each haul out for water damage.
 
Mar 11, 2010
292
Catalina Tall Rig/ Fin Keel Deale, MD
I epoxied 3/4" layers of G-10, but I think white oak is just fine. Particularly after you cut each piece to fit, and coat all sides with epoxy like you said. I used West System high density filler (404) added to the epoxy mix to fill any voids while I was gluing in the pieces. The plastic syringes that they sell, came in real handy. And also keep in mind the amount of heat generated by the epoxy. I did my block in two phases. A quick sand of the top layer the next day and I kep' on gittin' it.

Rob
 
Feb 26, 2008
603
Catalina 30 Marathon, FL
This thread has stuck in my mind, and on another Catalina forum someone suggested that MKIII C30's had a fiberglass compression post.

I emailed the factory today and heard back from Warren and Kent. All C30's have white oak compression blocks. They were glassed in place.

You can get a replacement block from Catalina for $165. I attached photos below.

Jim

http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp1.jpg
http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp2.jpg
http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp3.jpg
http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp4.jpg
 

BillyK

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Jan 24, 2010
502
Catalina 310 Ocean City, NJ
jimmcgee said:
This thread has stuck in my mind, and on another Catalina forum someone suggested that MKIII C30's had a fiberglass compression post.

I emailed the factory today and heard back from Warren and Kent. All C30's have white oak compression blocks. They were glassed in place.

You can get a replacement block from Catalina for $165. I attached photos below.

Jim

http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp1.jpg
http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp2.jpg
http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp3.jpg
http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp4.jpg
Wow I sure wish I knew this BEFORE I made my own block. :(
 
Dec 11, 2010
128
catalina 27 Chicago
This thread has stuck in my mind, and on another Catalina forum someone suggested that MKIII C30's had a fiberglass compression post.

I emailed the factory today and heard back from Warren and Kent. All C30's have white oak compression blocks. They were glassed in place.

You can get a replacement block from Catalina for $165. I attached photos below.

Jim

http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp1.jpg
http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp2.jpg
http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp3.jpg
http://www.njlakefront.com/c30/cp4.jpg
Do you know if Catalina still makes a block for the C27?
 
Feb 26, 2008
603
Catalina 30 Marathon, FL
Do you know if Catalina still makes a block for the C27?
Joel, I only asked about the C30 but I would think if they can make up blocks for the 30 they'd be able to make one up for the 27.

Try contacting Kent at the factory. I heard back from Kent and Warren the same day. My experience with the factory has been very positive.

Jim
 

mortyd

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Dec 11, 2004
952
Catalina 30 easy living
???? i can't find it now, but the international cataina 30 sight had a list of factory improvements over the years and sometime before my boat - 5961 - was buit the compression post was changed to 'non wood.' either this is incorrect (i think not) or the guys at catalina you spoke to forgot this.
 
Feb 26, 2008
603
Catalina 30 Marathon, FL
???? i can't find it now, but the international cataina 30 sight had a list of factory improvements over the years and sometime before my boat - 5961 - was buit the compression post was changed to 'non wood.' either this is incorrect (i think not) or the guys at catalina you spoke to forgot this.
Morty, I'd emailed Warren Pandy at the factory and asked that question specifically. He wasn't sure so he forwarded my question to Kent Nelson.

I won't know for sure until I eventually cut a test window to check mine (probably some time next winter, hull #6294). But these guys have never steered me wrong in the past.

Jim
 

mortyd

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Dec 11, 2004
952
Catalina 30 easy living
nor has the international catalina 30 assoc. i guess somebody posted that info for a reason. when i asked catalina (kent?) what was used instead of wood i was told it was something, but he forgot exaxctly what.
 

BillyK

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Jan 24, 2010
502
Catalina 310 Ocean City, NJ
mortyd said:
???? i can't find it now, but the international cataina 30 sight had a list of factory improvements over the years and sometime before my boat - 5961 - was buit the compression post was changed to 'non wood.' either this is incorrect (i think not) or the guys at catalina you spoke to forgot this.
Compression post versus block? They are two different things..
 

mortyd

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Dec 11, 2004
952
Catalina 30 easy living
since the weakest link is the critical point in the chain, what was the purpose of changing the post from wood but have it still bear on wood?
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
In MKii an improvement was that the compression post was changed from wood to metal. The original wood post lead the the "bird bath" at the foot of the mast.

My hull number is 5800 and when it was surveyed I had the area around the mast checked well because I had read of the "bird bath" from earlier models. I didn't have one present.

Is it possible that the wood is just a filler and it is filling the area under the compression post that is supported by the structure around it? What I am meaning by this is could this wood be the inside of an area that was glassed in for the mast support to sit.

Years of manufacturing has changed the compression post design. If you pay careful attention to new designs the metal compression post runs from the bilge all the way to the roof of the cabin. They use to have glass over the metal compression post but now the post sits even with the roof around it. This was because the fiberglass under the compression post would delaminate or crack.

The point of switching from a wooden compression post to a metal post just for the compression post to sit on a block of wood is why I wonder if the wooden piece is an insert on MKii and not supportive structure. Truly, if the wooden block was mud why had the cabin roof stayed the same and not sagged?

Either way it is probably best to have a wooden block in there if there was one there once. I wonder if it is just not as bad as a problem as one may think that it is.
 

jrowan

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Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
Even if the base of the mast compression post/ block is degraded by rot, the mast is also supported by the adjacent main bulkhead. Also if you look at the cabin roof it has a large ridge of fiberglass "rib" which also tabs in the bulkhead and helps absorb and displace some of the load of the mast to the hull. My C 30 also has an optional mast tabernacle base made of steel that is through bolted & helps take some of the compression load / mast pumping pressure. All of these areas help take the load of the mast, but I agree that compression post is a critical element, or the cabin top may suffer cracking and sagging. Honestly when I think about it, the mast plate that my mast rests upon may very well be hiding cracks that aren't visible. The hinged plate was really designed to assist in raising & lowering the mast but it also helps to support the base quite a bit.
 

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