Best Wheel Autopilot for C30 ??

BarryL · Mar 19, 2015

Hey,

You really only have two choices for wheel pilots, Raymarine and 'The Cpt.'

The raymarine unit is the EV100. It's new, modern, uses NMEA 2000 networking, etc.

the CPT is older, doesn't network, looks beefy.

I bought the Raymarine unit last year and I'm happy with it. I can steer to a heading, to a wind angle (once I interfaced it with my wind instrument) or to a waypoint (after interfacing to my plotter).

www.cptautopilot.com
www.raymarine.com

Good luck,
Barry

dj2210 · Mar 19, 2015

I installed the raymarine SPX5 which is the previous version of EV100. It also networks to nema and the rest of Raymarine's stuff. It has worked flawlessly for maintaining course and wasn't too hard to install. It does make some noise though. I use it alot when by myself.

Blitz · Mar 19, 2015

dj2210 said:
It does make some noise though. I use it alot when by myself.

Ditto - noise may not be pleasing to guests

Capt jgw · Mar 19, 2015

I've had a couple different Auotohelm/Raymarine units, and now an old CPT. I like the CPT better. Stronger than the Raymarine and much, much cheaper. Bullet proof and very reliable, very little to go wrong. Manual sea state and sensitivity controls which I don't mind. Does not interface with a chart plotter, but after helping clean up a couple fatal "Autopilot Assisted" wrecks, I would never again connect a pilot to a plotter. When the plotter says it's time to turn, Otto turns, and he doesn't look around first to see if there's anything in the way. With no network, the plotter tells you it's time to turn, then you look around and make the turn manually. Much safer.

Stu Jackson · Mar 19, 2015

Capt jgw said:
CPT...Does not interface with a chart plotter, but after helping clean up a couple fatal "Autopilot Assisted" wrecks, I would never again connect a pilot to a plotter. When the plotter says it's time to turn, Otto turns, and he doesn't look around first to see if there's anything in the way. With no network, the plotter tells you it's time to turn, then you look around and make the turn manually. Much safer.

jgw, I've been involved in many discussions about "interface" or not. Yours is one of the best reasons I've ever seem to avoid doing it. Thanks.

I've actually visited with the CPT folks in Aptos, CA. Great stuff and would be my next AP when mine dies (ST3000 - a real toy!).

Alan Gomes · Mar 19, 2015

Stu Jackson said:
jgw, I've been involved in many discussions about "interface" or not. Yours is one of the best reasons I've ever seem to avoid doing it. Thanks.

I've actually visited with the CPT folks in Aptos, CA. Great stuff and would be my next AP when mine dies (ST3000 - a real toy!).

I have used the Raymarine wheel pilot and currently have an ST2000+ tiller pilot, both of which were interfaced to the GPS. These units, at least, simply don't work that way.

When steering a route, the unit beeps at you when it comes to the next turn and requires user confirmation before it will actually execute the turn. It will not just mindlessly make the next turn.

BarryL · Mar 20, 2015

Hey,

I got the P70, which is for sailboats. The p70R has the rotary button and is for powerboats. The P70, with the +- buttons allows you to auto tack and auto jog (see an obstruction, press +10, clear the obstruction press -10 and you are back on course).

I don't find the noise objectionable.

As mentioned, when following a route, when the boat comes to a waypoint the AP will beep and you must press a button before the boat will change course. That's about as safe as can be. Of course you must keep watch, same as when the AP is holding a course or a helmsman is steering. The nice thing about following a route or steering to a waypoint is that the boat stays on course as things like currents change. Admittedly it's not that big a deal as it's not very difficult to check the course and press the + or - button every now and then to stay on course.

To be perfectly honest, under normal conditions the AP steers better than I do.

Barry

Capt.JDavis said:
Thanks Barry!

Did you get the one with the -/+1 and -/+10 buttons or the one with a rotary dial button?

njlarry · Mar 20, 2015

For those with raymarine , where did you put the ev100 sensor?
The cpt certainly looks like an easier install. Is it quieter than the raymarine?

markwbird · Mar 21, 2015

Ev100

I have the ev100. Works great and it wasn't that hard to install. You will have to hire a translator with a bloodhound to figure out the instructions but overall it's fairly simple. I put the motion sensor at the centerline of the boat under the companionway although the instructions say it doesn't really matter where it is. My one complaint is that it seems fragile. The wheel unit is plastic including the clutch.

Jackdaw · Mar 21, 2015

Stu Jackson said:
jgw, I've been involved in many discussions about "interface" or not. Yours is one of the best reasons I've ever seem to avoid doing it. Thanks.
.

The reason to networking interface an AP is not to turn at waypoints. Its to know real and apparent wind, and heading vs bearing. Modern AP computers will use this info to better steer, and steer to a wind direction.

Anyone that uses an AP to have a sailboat turn at a WP should have their head examined.

Alan Gomes · Mar 21, 2015

Jackdaw said:
The reason to networking interface an AP is not to turn at waypoints. Its to know real and apparent wind, and heading vs bearing. Modern AP computers will use this info to better steer, and steer to a wind direction.

Anyone that uses an AP to have a sailboat turn at a WP should have their head examined.

While I agree that this is not why someone would hook up an AP to a chart plotter, the fact is that this function is provided also and there's no reason not to use it if one wants--and certainly not the alleged safety issue originally cited.

Jackdaw · Mar 21, 2015

Alan Gomes said:
While I agree that this is not why someone would hook up an AP to a chart plotter, the fact is that this function is provided also and there's no reason not to use it if one wants--and certainly not the alleged safety issue originally cited.

Some truth to that for sure.

I used to working in the GPS/plotter industry. My team designed a whole range of these things. Often we would see functionality that was added to other devices because they COULD, not because they SHOULD.

Steering to waypoints, and the ability to TURN at them is one of these functions. It allows you to be away from the helm for way too long. Designed by some engineer that never set foot on a boat. Approved by a product manger who wanted one more checkbox to print on the box. Then used by someone who lets it drive his boat into an island.

BarryL · Mar 21, 2015

Jackdaw said:
Anyone that uses an AP to have a sailboat turn at a WP should have their head examined.

Wow, that's a bit harsh.

I sail by myself (or with inexperienced guests, young kids, etc.) and when I'm going somewhere I use the AP to steer and frequently to follow a route. When I reach the current way point and need to steer towards the next way point I let the AP pick the heading while I tend the sails. Why is that bad? Why is that any different than the 'auto tack' feature that I use ALL THE TIME? On my last boat, which had an older AP that was not interfaced, I would look at the plotter, see that I needed a 40 degree change to port (for example), then press the -10 buttons 4 times in a row, then tend the sails while the AP steered to the new course. The new way of having the plotter provide the course to the AP is basically the same except that I only have to press one button.

Am I missing something?

Barry

Jackdaw · Mar 21, 2015

BarryL 1986 Oday 35 said:
Wow, that's a bit harsh.

I sail by myself (or with inexperienced guests, young kids, etc.) and when I'm going somewhere I use the AP to steer and frequently to follow a route. When I reach the current way point and need to steer towards the next way point I let the AP pick the heading while I tend the sails. Why is that bad? Why is that any different than the 'auto tack' feature that I use ALL THE TIME? On my last boat, which had an older AP that was not interfaced, I would look at the plotter, see that I needed a 40 degree change to port (for example), then press the -10 buttons 4 times in a row, then tend the sails while the AP steered to the new course. The new way of having the plotter provide the course to the AP is basically the same except that I only have to press one button.

Am I missing something?

Barry

Barry, no you're really not. It probably IS a bit harsh. Used very carefully, it can be fine. The problem is when it is not used carefully.

I advise (and pros do as well) to have the boat steer to wind or course only It FORCES you to stay alert and vigilant to what the boat is doing. And auto tacking is not the same. You initiate that in real time. I would never allow a boat to initiate a turn with me being right there.

The owner of the Aegean was a good sailor. And he probably started out using the AP steering to WPs like you suggest. But after some time, he let it drive all night to a WP over the horizon.

Stu Jackson · Mar 21, 2015

Barry, you're not missing anything. My experience is that it is a boat-management issue. Some folks like interface, others don't. It's quite simple.

The "old saw"" about interfacing comes from the anecdotal (as well as probably all-too-real) stories about skippers who plugged in routes but neglected to notice that one part of the route put them in danger. BANG! Not good.

These days there is actually software that purports to assure that this won't happen.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy either.

Your boat, your choice.

Years ago we took a cruise with a bunch of other skippers up the Napa River. One of them sent out a route plan with 200 waypoints from the river mouth to the end of navigation.

I did the trip with six waypoints!!!

The skipper who sent the multi-tiered route out went aground at the entrance to the last waypoint. He must have been too busy following the over complicated route than watching the tides (travel on our rivers here are dictated by tides, not currents).

As long as interfacing is, well, uhm, interfaced with human confirmation before any turn is made, it's functionally identical. As long as the route has been "vetted" beforehand.

Alan Gomes · Mar 21, 2015

Jackdaw said:
Some truth to that for sure.

I used to working in the GPS/plotter industry. My team designed a whole range of these things. Often we would see functionality that was added to other devices because they COULD, not because they SHOULD.

Steering to waypoints, and the ability to TURN at them is one of these functions. It allows you to be away from the helm for way too long. Designed by some engineer that never set foot on a boat. Approved by a product manger who wanted one more checkbox to print on the box. Then used by someone who lets it drive his boat into an island.

Well, any of these devices can be abused. This is true of chart plotters and autopilots per se, quite apart from any networking issues.

I find the "turn at a waypoint" function occasionally useful, particularly when I'm motoring somewhere and set a route to navigate around an obstruction. It's kind of nice to be out and about in the cockpit, keeping a normal lookout (which is essential for any kind of navigation), but then have the AP start beeping at me to confirm the next turn it wants to make. Saves me the trouble of setting up the next WP in the route because it's already in there, ready to go at the push of a button. I have a couple common routes where I use this and it is, as I say, a mild convenience. It's not something I'd pay extra for, nor would I set up the networking just to do this, nor do I rely on it.

I think the "steer to waypoint" function is a bit more useful than the "turn at waypoint" function, because it will correct your course for current and the like, but it's hardly essential, either.

Since it took me less than an hour to run the wiring between the two devices and to hook it up, I figured why not. But if I still had a boat with a wheel, I'd certainly consider the CPT if it is indeed more robust. I'd put a higher priority on that than networking, personally.

jonelli · Apr 6, 2015

Raymarine ST4000

Hey All,
Don't mean to hijack this, but I have the Raymarine ST4000 wheel pilot that came with my 87 MkII I purchased last year. It's not connected to the GPS (but I read that it could), so I've only tried it by using the heading and pushing the Auto button.
It seems to me to lag quite a bit before correcting and tends to steer too late and then has to overshoot and within a couple of minutes I'm all over the place.

I don't have a lot of experience, but how well are these things supposed to work?