"Average" winds at sea?

[PotomacDaysailer]

Hey all, I've never done any extensive ocean sailing, in fact, almost all my experience is on inland lakes. I am just curious as to the typical wind speeds one might encounter on the open ocean - I know you get everything from dead calm to hurricane force, but what I really am wondering is if old salts would consider, say, 25 to 30 kts sustained wind speed to be a hard blow or no big deal (to me it's a LOT of wind).
Same with waves, I seldom encounter over a foot or so wind-waves, which I imagine is negligible on the high seas, but what size swells would be considered run-of-the-mill?
I do realize that all this is highly variable and subjective - if you're accustomed to Cape Horn then 10 foot seas and 30 kt winds probably seems like a picnic - but I just wonder how what I would consider a wild ride compares to the more seasoned sailors.

 

[woodster]

here's a start

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=wind speed nomenclature

 

[Stu Jackson]

I took some friends sailing one time and it was dead calm.

I took them sailing next year at it blew 25.

Great average day of 12 knot winds.

 

[LeoLambert310]

For Vancouver Island ( east side ) we can have winds from 0-45 kts but the norm is around 15-25kts waves from 1-6 feet norm 2-3 feet. Have been out on our Catalina 310 in 30-35kts winds with 5-6 feet seas.

 

[PotomacDaysailer]

I took some friends sailing one time and it was dead calm.

I took them sailing next year at it blew 25.

Great average day of 12 knot winds.

That's the reason for the scare quotes around "average" in the title.

What I am driving at, put another way: Forecast is Force 5 winds and 6-foot seas. How would a dyed-in-the-wool blue-water sailor, someone with a long lifetime spent at sea on sailing vessels, react? *Yawn*, "Holy crap!", or somewhere in between?

 

[jleblanc31]

Im like the original poster I to have only sailed in a lake. Lake Pontchartrain to be exact. Ive seen dead calm to 8 foot waves even tried going out in a good blow one time with my Macgregor but the kicker wouldn't get me over the first few waves once I past the protected dock. at the dock a guy came up to me and said you going out in that? I said yes. he said once you get out im calling the coast guard you shouldn't be going out in that little boat. I didn't expect what the waves had for me that day and turned around and came back in . I didn't know what I was doing then and probably still don't . but I have read a few books and wouldn't mind trying a good blow again.

 

[Skipper]

True wind, not apparent:
5 knots- snoozeville. Boat sails but not much going on.
10 knots- good. Boat sails fast and smooth.
15 knots- fabulous. You're above hull speed, some water over the bow, fun ride.
--We average 10 to 12 knots here--
20 knots- reefing the genoa by half. Letting the main luff a little. Sea is getting choppy. Not a problem, just not as smooth as before.
25 knots- reefing the main. Sea is getting rough. Secure all gear. Still not a problem, but requires constant attention.
30 knots- double reefed main and furled genoa, but maybe for 3 feet sticking out. Riding big swells and frothy chop. Not for beginners. Not a huge deal but can get tricky and requires knowledge of sail and helm handling. Might stay in the harbor in this weather.
35 knots. Stay in the harbor. If you're caught in it, and your sails are properly arranged, and you have a good boat, all will likely be fine. Rum after.
Anything above 40 knots steady true wind is a category I've yet to experience. I'd guess it to be nasty. Hopefully someday

 

[vhoisington]

The real question is leads with the wind and the waves as is istv with the boat and the skipper. Boats survive a lot, people not so much. When your out sailing on your lake and the wind pipes up what is yours reaction. Throw a reef in and keep going or head for home with your tail between your legs. When the boat gets laid over in Agustin, do you handle its calmly and ease the sheets or do you get panicked and start the motor.

In reality, it handling big winds, big waves has more to do with your preparedness as a skipper and less to do with the actual weather. Look around and you'll find people who can handle anything in a Catalina 22, at the same time there are people who underestimate their abilities and sink very big ships.

The more you prepare, the better your boat is prepared, the more you learn the better you will do.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Forecast is Force 5 winds and 6-foot seas.

As much as you're trying to get to be more specific, this is a slippery slope to an answer:

What direction will you be sailing?

Really.

Force 5 is 17-21 knots true. Not something I don't see regularly here.

But sialing the Bay with those winds is completely different than sailing out on the ocean.

How long has it been blowing?

The height of the seas is only part of the equation. The PERIOD of the swells is dramatically important and six feet seas at 18 seconds is nothing but bobbing up and down, six feet at 6 seconds is a washing machine.

Four years ago my son & I were sailing upwind, eventually seas were 7 at 7 (I looked later) and the wind was 25 true, a tad over force 5. We quit and turned around.

Last weekend we were sailing and the conditions were 9 feet at 11 seconds, force 5 winds 20 kts. We just kept going, it was a LOVELY ride for over four hours. Why? 'Cuz we were going almost downwind, like a broad reach.

So I agree, over force 6 is generally time to stay home, but the swell height AND period are extremely important to know. That's why they include it in forecasts.

There are places to do some more reading, like noaa, Adlard Coles, maybe even wikipedia on sea state and the like.

In summary: it all depends.

 

[capta]

There are Pilot Charts for each month for all oceans and some other areas. I think you will find definitive answers on these. for example; http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/APC/Pub106/106oct.pdf

 

[jeepbluetj]

I'd say that you get everything from dead calm to hurricane force.

Where I sail, we don't go out over 25. Mainsail reef at 15. Do some other stuff when we get scared.

Out past where your a day or so away from shelter? You sail the boat for the conditions it's in. That can be everywhere from full sail to running under bare poles with a drogue out.

Downwind in the trades, sure - a headsail only with 25 knts of wind is great. Different when it hits 40+. (I go hide at 25+, so my advice is suspect....)

 

[Gunni]

Let's put it this way, if you are going out in the ocean you better be prepared to sail in 25-30 knot winds for at least 3 days. This is where the boat you are aboard comes into consideration. Will she keep you safe and comfortable?

 

[dstouten]

Hi All... What a great subject. I agree mostly with Skipper's post except I have been out in gales where the wind was close to 40kts and the sometimes breaking swells were around twenty feet. When you are crossing an ocean, you don't have another option when the gales come along. I believe the best answer I can give is a video I made during a 2010 crossing from Hawaii to San Francisco. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tZtdF5Ol6I
You will see the full gammet of categories here in the video. The whole trip was very exciting but the last few days, where we made our longest runs, were in a gale. I hope you enjoy. Don, Spirit of Adventure

 

[Cjdaley]

Good morning, I'm surprised no one has ventured into the answer involving... It depends what kind of boat you are sailing...as to how a bluewater sailor would feel about various swell, wind wave, and wind strengths... Huge differences involving, vessel and experience. EG. There is no "average" to be expected. Wishing you calm seas and comfortable winds ... to match you and your ride.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Anything above 40 knots steady true wind is a category I've yet to experience. I'd guess it to be nasty. Hopefully someday

So nasty I hope to avoid such experiences in future.

 

[summerplace]

I did a transport on a 41 ft sailboat from Bermuda to NYC. We left Bermuda in 25 knot winds. On a broad reach with a double reefed main and a small jib. Winds built to about 40 knots and waves were about 14 feet for 4 days or until we got off the New Jersey coast. The waves were a gentle clockwise roll that lifted and dropped the boat as we went with the flow. Rouge waves broke about every third wave or so over the stern quarter that we needed to stay aware of and steer off of. Not doing so meant a cockpit full of water for a bit.

Our point of sail made it a good ride. Not sure I would have wanted to try it into the wind.

 

[Mon Coeur 27]

On a recent return trip from the Dry Tortugas to the Mississippi Gulf Coast we encountered 15kt sustained and gusts to 33kt for 2-1/2 days. We were on a run with the wind and seas on the starboard stern. Catalina 41. Seas were 10-12ft with an occasional 14+ swell. period was about 8 seconds. Reefed jib only as we did not want to have the possibility of having to reef at night in those conditions. Was a nice sail with no issues. We would surf a little on the larger swells and nearly broach on the crest but the autopilot did a good job of holding her although a little out of control for a few seconds. we could have taken higher winds with a little deeper reef but needless to say I was glad when we made port. Wind driven, salty and tired for the 4hr on 4hr off watch schedule with a two man crew. I would also add to this question that another piece of information to consider is the amount of time one would expect to be in those conditions along with the number of crew if you have autopilot or will be manning the helm for the duration. It becomes more of a human endurance issue instead of if the boat can take it.

 

[sailndayz]

I've lived a long and good life. Plan to continue. When the below starts, I head in. If the forecast claims stormy, I don't go out. Oh, OK, I'm a wuss, but...I'm alive.

 

[Monterey385]

When coastal cruising in the ocean (where you might be in the ocean but still have a choice as to whether to run in or not), its not just the current conditions that count, but what have the conditions been for the last several days ... are there storms offshore ... is wind now opposing tide ... is the wind consistent (frontals or thermals), how close are you to a harbor entrance (Delaware Bay is a classic where wind opposing tide/sea state can turn it into a washing machine, Buzzards Bay is the same). Boat design and crew experience are key. As others have said, 20-25kts of true wind is certainly workable if its coming from the proper direction. I've been miserable in 6-10 foot seas with a short period and fine with 8-10 foot seas with a long period.

 

[Franklin]

Many great replies on here like Stu's (always has good info) and Gunni (not familiar with him). I thought I'd throw in some more.

For those who do 5-30+ day sails, 25-30 is no sweat but we try to avoid it when we can. Over 30 we really try to avoid it. On my trip to Marquesas Islands this month I was told I was sailing in a zone that was about to get 37 knots of wind and heavy rain. The famous, or infamous, depending on who you talk to, weather router Chris Parker said to go north to 7.4 lat. I was at 8.5 and really liking it there but 37 knots of wind is no fun, especially with the storms that come with it, so I went south instead of north, to 10.2. My reasoning for going south was so that I would avoid the big swell of the storms in the zone. It didn't make much sense to me to be on the downwind side of the blow.

It is the waves you have to worry about, not the wind. The wind can be annoying and some boats handle the stronger winds better than others, but it is the waves that throw the boat around and make things dangerous. In the open ocean the waves aren't always matching the wind either.

In seas like the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico you don't have ocean swells much, but just wind waves. Wind waves are steep and short period and can be uncomfortable, but always following the wind or very close to it. Ocean swells are from a weather system farther away so they don't match the wind direction (I guess one could say they can but then they are combined with the wind waves and therefore still steep and just considered wind waves). You will find in the open oceans that you will have wind waves from one direction, maybe a steep swell 30 degress off that (still steep because the wind is still keeping them up) and a rolling swell from another 40 degrees off the wind.

Another thing to keep in mind, is the lats. If you stay between 25 and 25, you aren't going to see anything over 35 knots of wind (for the most part) unless you are caught in a tropical storm. 35 knots of wind is not a killer but not fun. The farther you get out of that range, the stronger the winds can get, but also more variable (trade winds are fairly stable). In otherwords, you will get a lot of low winds but if you are in a calm in the higher lats, be expecting strong winds within a day or two. Those who sail in the high lats and cross oceans in them should expect 60 knots of wind on occasions. 60 knots can be a killer if the boat, captain and crew are not ready for it.

So if you want to do some serious open ocean sailing, get comfortable with sailing in 25-35 knots of apparent wind and learn what to do if you experience the 60 knots of wind, but always look for winds under 20 as that is more enjoyable -- unless you sail a very heavy boat.

Speaking of enjoyable -- things are different when sailing a few hours vrs a few days. What you find fun in a 3 hour sail may not be so fun in a 3 day sail, especially longer like a 8 day sail. Most people love to ride roller coasters, but that is because they are only on them for a min or two. It would be torture to be on one for 2 days.