Catalina 275
- Thread starter CoachG
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How was your racing season? Did you make any boat modifications? I am planning to purchase a Catalina 275 Sport this winter and plan to race next season.
I know there are not many C275's out there and the ones that are, seem to not hang around the forums. Anyway, I've had one since June 2014 so I can hopefully answer some of your questions. Not sure if there is much to modify, but most of my modifications were for the inside of the boat and being a Catalina, you pretty much have to do them after purchase. Anyway, regarding the sails, I have the stock Doyle sails. They're not bad, but they are not true expensive racing sails. The self-tacking jib is really not for racing. Anything but close hauled, the top half completely twists off. But for daysailing it's fine and also really nice when solo. Further, my self-tacking jib was cut too tall and max'd out against the mast causing the halyard to wear and snap on the last sail of the year. Obviously, the spinnaker is a must but being asymmetric, you will not point as far downwind as a symmetric. If you are more specific as to the modifications you are considering, I may be able to give a more directed answer. Also, I'm not sure if you have been on a C275, but don't get fooled by "Sport" being in the name. It may have some nice hardware, but it's too heavy to be a sport boat and Catalina is not being honest when they say it comes in at 5000 lbs. That being said, I'm happy with the C275 and I'm so thankful that my C270 purchase in 2013 fell through.
Do you happen to have the measurements of the stock C275 Sport asymmetrical spinnaker? I need the measurements to apply for a PHRF rating. Measurements of the luff, leach and mid-section girth are required. When racing non-spin, do you pole out the genoa? If so, do you use a J-length pole?
Sorry do not have the information you require. The only info in the manual is 676 sf. for the spinnaker. Doyle makes the main and jib, so you may want to contact Doyle in Florida to see if they made the spinnaker and they would have the info you need. I only have the 100% jib which is 145 sf. (the 106% is 175 sf., main is 242 sf.). Because of the self-tacking track with the 100%, you can not go straight downwind without securing it out, which I have never done. If I was racing, I would be using the spinnaker. Pleasure sailing, I don't go straight downwind or I roll in the jib. Don't know how long a J-length pole is, but these sails are on the smaller side.
As for PHRF, someone mentioned that values between 189 and 198 were being used. Since I have a shoal draft keel and self-tacker, I would be on the slower end.
I purchased hull #2 in march of 2014. I have used it for 3 seasons. I agree with everything said above. Its not a Great race boat, it is a boat that can be raced. I was given a 189 PERF and still was only marginal competitive. I purchased a Quantum 105 jib. This helped pointing. as stated above the off the wind performance with the small jib is disappointing, But when you deploy a spin the fun starts. I have a code 0 that makes the boat move well in winds up to about 10 knots. I also purchased a true downwind spin. (The top down furlers allow me to use any sail single handed.. they work well) I had used a "sock" on spins on my old boat, the furler is better... I love sailing the boat. I wanted a boat I could single hand, had a spin, a head, a big cockpit,(party time) and a diesel. One "Modification" I did was to add a ratchet block to the base of the 2nd stanchion on the port side. I can then take the self tacking jib sheet, back thru this block and use the cam cleat on the deck to hold it,
and adjust the self tacking jib trim without leaving the tiller. (leave the line lock open). I had a Jib issue similar to the above, the luff was to long, (Catalina shortened it for me) My jib also came with a tack with only 1 grommet (whole) in it. I had Catalina replace it with a clue plate with 5 holes in it. Because the jib sheet lead block cannot be moved (fore or aft) you need to be able to adjust the clue anchor position on the jib to change the sail shape.(similar to a Hobie 16) These two Jib modifications helped a lot!! (probably not an issue on later boats). Overall I love the boat. I would do it all again .... PS there is no way to put a SUP in the aft berth like the ad's say.
and adjust the self tacking jib trim without leaving the tiller. (leave the line lock open). I had a Jib issue similar to the above, the luff was to long, (Catalina shortened it for me) My jib also came with a tack with only 1 grommet (whole) in it. I had Catalina replace it with a clue plate with 5 holes in it. Because the jib sheet lead block cannot be moved (fore or aft) you need to be able to adjust the clue anchor position on the jib to change the sail shape.(similar to a Hobie 16) These two Jib modifications helped a lot!! (probably not an issue on later boats). Overall I love the boat. I would do it all again .... PS there is no way to put a SUP in the aft berth like the ad's say.
Some 275 thoughts:
1) Doyle is unlikely to give you the measurements (girths) of their asym for the boat. They did the work to measure, design, and test that sail, and they want to SELL you one, not give you the specs to have someone else make a copy.
2) @cat guy That 189 that they gave you at leech matches the only value PHRF rating reported to US Sailing, from East Connecticut. That is indeed a high number for a 27 footer with sporting intentions, but you are right that boat is very heavy and slightly under-powered. You say you have a hard time sailing to that number... as a benchmark, how did you sail to your number on your last boat?
3) For a 27 footer, the boat has a VERY small J measurement, making the jib useless for doing anything but going upwind. I can't understand why the mast is SO far forward. Anyway. Gerry Douglas didn't want to scare anyone with the sailplan, and he won't. Don't buy this boat without off-wind sails.
4) I do like the boat, and give props to Catalina for having the moxie to take it to market. I'm just not sure who they really intended to buy it. But I like it.
1) Doyle is unlikely to give you the measurements (girths) of their asym for the boat. They did the work to measure, design, and test that sail, and they want to SELL you one, not give you the specs to have someone else make a copy.
2) @cat guy That 189 that they gave you at leech matches the only value PHRF rating reported to US Sailing, from East Connecticut. That is indeed a high number for a 27 footer with sporting intentions, but you are right that boat is very heavy and slightly under-powered. You say you have a hard time sailing to that number... as a benchmark, how did you sail to your number on your last boat?
3) For a 27 footer, the boat has a VERY small J measurement, making the jib useless for doing anything but going upwind. I can't understand why the mast is SO far forward. Anyway. Gerry Douglas didn't want to scare anyone with the sailplan, and he won't. Don't buy this boat without off-wind sails.
4) I do like the boat, and give props to Catalina for having the moxie to take it to market. I'm just not sure who they really intended to buy it. But I like it.
answering #2 above..My last boat was a 1985 Hunter 28.5 (with original sails) I usually finished in the top 1/3 of the fleet, and always placed in my division. Now bottom 1/3 of fleet and no place in division at the LLR (I placed first overall in the CAT division in the early 90's LLR) . FYI.. I raced Hobie cats almost every weekend in the 80's and 90's. (note username). I generally placed in the top 3 sailing H16, H17, H18, and H21's over the years. (This was back when it was not unusual to get 30 to 50 boats at a Hobie regatta in the Midwest) . I got 3rd at the Hobie 21 Nationals in the early 90's. (We were using spins on cats back then!). I also raced DN Ice boats during that time.
I think the original question is a good one. Basically what can you do to make the boat go faster. Its hard to tune a boat without a twin or reasonably similar boat to spar with. Is there a way to contact all the 275 owners? How many boats have been sold? (not just built). My luring curve on Hobie's and DN's was sped up considerably with help from other skippers. If your out there lets talk!!
I think the original question is a good one. Basically what can you do to make the boat go faster. Its hard to tune a boat without a twin or reasonably similar boat to spar with. Is there a way to contact all the 275 owners? How many boats have been sold? (not just built). My luring curve on Hobie's and DN's was sped up considerably with help from other skippers. If your out there lets talk!!
@cat guy ,
Cool! Can you tell if the issue is upwind or down? How do you do (boat speed and angle) on the first leg of the first beat? Everyone is near and on starboard, so you should be able to get a sense of how upwind is going.
That boat might be a bear downwind. Heavy and asym rarely go together. Work HARD to get a deep (150) TWA with the asym under moderate conditions; ease the tackline 3 feet or so to get the asym to rotate around to windward for maximum projection.
Polars! Call Catalina daily and bitch at Gerry until you get the polars. If he did them. ;^(
I know your pain. I have the only Beneteau First 260 in the USA. But at least I had polars, and 500+ owners in Europe I could ask questions of.
Cool! Can you tell if the issue is upwind or down? How do you do (boat speed and angle) on the first leg of the first beat? Everyone is near and on starboard, so you should be able to get a sense of how upwind is going.
That boat might be a bear downwind. Heavy and asym rarely go together. Work HARD to get a deep (150) TWA with the asym under moderate conditions; ease the tackline 3 feet or so to get the asym to rotate around to windward for maximum projection.
Polars! Call Catalina daily and bitch at Gerry until you get the polars. If he did them. ;^(
I know your pain. I have the only Beneteau First 260 in the USA. But at least I had polars, and 500+ owners in Europe I could ask questions of.
Throw that thing on a trailer and come on down to Chicago. I'll spar with you all you want. You should go better upwind than me because of my shoal keel and smaller jib, but that's ok. I think the biggest problem with the speed of the C275 (and I'm not an expert) is that it is too heavy to really scoot when it is windy and it has too much wetted surface in the light stuff. How do you like your Quantum sail? I'm making the assumption that is not a self-tacking jib. So with that in mind, do you change your jibs depending if you are racing or not? I would like a better jib, but I'm not that motivated because I like the ease of the self-tacking when solo.
Better yet, you should throw yours on a trailer and spend a week on Leech Lake. This photo is from The Chase on Walker Bay (the tiny end of the lake). The horizon you see is looking north towards the end of the "tiny" bay. The main body of the lake isn't even in the picture. You could easily spend more than a week exploring this lake. We were in Walker for a wedding in early October. Most sailboats were out of the water by then, leaving the lake to walleye fishermen!
I'm sure it would be fun gunkholing around up there. But if I was going through the trouble of
putting the C275 on a trailer, I'd be heading to the Bahamas sailing from Florida. Granted it would be roughing it on a C275, but certainly better than a Hobie 16 when I was a lot younger. The nice thing about my little "inland" lake is that when the wind is out of the S-SE (where the waves can't build as much, but is uninterrupted for 30+ miles) is that the wind is so steady, it really gives the best opportunity for matching performance.
Had to laugh at the picture, looks like they could set up a putt-putt golf course up on the roof.
Ha! They did a good job at disguising the roof of the bar/restaurant! We had a great view of the lake from a really nice suite, but for the price, nobody would want to look at an ugly roof! They even have benches up there, but I couldn't find any access. I think they have to climb thru the port in the center of the roof.
I know Lake Michigan pretty well ... much of my youth was spent at Gillson Park beach, and I sailed my Hobie 16 from there on a few occasions for Hobie regattas they had back in the 80's.
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Small world. I taught sailing there from 1980 to 1983 and actively raced Hobie 16's until WSA died.
It is. Before I left for college in 1973, I had friends who kept a Sunfish at Gillson Park. When we came back, I had a friend who bought first a (real) Windsurfer and then his Hobie 16 from Chalet Nursery. My dad also bought our first sailboats from Chalet in the 60's. We had a vacation home on Deep Lake in Lake Villa (Lake County) so most of my sailing was there. I bought my Hobie around 1985 and sailed on Deep Lake for the most part. But I also trailered it around a little bit entering a few regattas at Gillson Park and in Racine. We left Illinois for NJ early in 1989 so I only had it in Illinois for a few seasons.
The C275 points well. It goes to weather well. I had Quantum sails make me a "Race" jib. (Ok technically a genoa) . Nice shape. not much bigger than the self tacking Doyle. But as big as the rig allows...the leach almost touches the spreaders. it uses the tracks/lead blocks so adjusting sail shape is possible. But it docent help much off the wind. The irony is what when I raced Hobies I excelled at down wind runs. I did get the polars and attempt to use the info. I agree that if I put her on a trailer I am going a lot further south than Chicago. (Sorry....) Still looking for ways to go faster!!
I do... Not sure who they really belong to... Not sure I want to post them here... let me know how to get them to you and ill send them. ( How did you know I had then???)