Boat Repairs seem insane

Mar 26, 2011
3,410
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I'm trying to figure out why the PO is staying at HHN unless he enjoys burning money. There are marinas within 1/2-mile that cost literally 3 times less. I'm paying $100/mo for an 18' wide slip.

That said, their dry land storage and hauling rates are reasonable (I go there every 2 years and haul), and some of the contractors are reasonable. Some are not, since they have a customer base that is not very price sensitive.

But the brass tacks are that a 1984 boat is going to need a LOT of work, like buying an old car. She's used up, unless you are willing to put in a lot of sweat. That list was not long, there will be loads more if you want to keep here right. Fortunately, most boat work is stuff DIYs can learn.

But doing it to a high standard, safe and durable, is not so easy, and a lot of DIY work--dare I say most of it--is substandard and full of short cuts. A lot of the tips here offered here were well-intended, but the projects may be more involved and more awkward than they first seem. The professional has to cover himself for whatever he gets into. What would your hourly rate be, if you had to cover rain days (gotta pay folks even when there is no work), sick days, benefits, insurance, building lease and profit, all assuming it is also seasonal? Do you have all of the tools and minor materials? Will you get it right, the first time? Professional work can be haphazard too, but most of the HHN contractors are first rate.

If it isn't a labor of love, you're better off with a sailing dinghy or a kayak.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
You can take your car to the Mercedes service center and you'll probably get good service but you are paying for their overhead too. If you go to a reputable mechanic you should get the same quality for less.
 
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kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
I am not sure why a person with no DIY skills would buy a boat 32 years old. If you are at the mercy of the boat yard to do all the work then it defeats the purpose in buying a cheaper older boat in the first place.
 
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Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Silliness.... those prices seem crazy.
Perhaps ask for a breakdown of labor hours, labor price per hour, and cost of parts. Then you will know for what you are paying.
On the other hand, enjoy working on your boat. At least half of the enjoyment of owning a sailboat is learning and maintaining the boat. There is a lot of pride earned in making a boat look and perform well.
Go for it! And I agree with Peggy. Ask dock mates for information and help. Just don't give 'em the beer til, as she said, you can admire a job well DONE.
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
I think, that the item about securing the Y-Valve refers to mounting it to a bulkhead or such, my assumption when I read that was that the previous owner just plumbed the valve in (or had some one do that?) but never actually mounted the valve anything solid to keep it In place and prevent possible damage to the hoses and thru-hull/seacock if someone or something accidently fell or leaned against the y-valve causing strain on the setup and possible breaking the thru-hull off at the hull...... Instant fountain!
 

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
When I mounted my y-valve, I set a resin coated piece of wood into a bed of kitty hair and screwed the valve to it. Less than $10 and a half hour of work.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Clearly I am charging way to little....:banghead::biggrin:

Those prices are pretty steep. The fuel valve one really makes me chuckle as I did one in August and it took a total of about 18 minutes start to finish and most of that was poor access. The owner got a "Minimum Charge - Falmouth Anchorage" labor bill plus an ABYC compliant aluminum fuel shut off valve, because you can't mix copper based alloys such as brass and aluminum, which cost $29.40 oh plus a couple of premium ABA fuel hose clamps at $1.90 each.

Pinch existing hose close to barb with radiator pinch pliers
Cut hose at barb
Un-thread old fuel valve
Apply Real-Tuff pipe dope to new valve and thread into tank tapping
Slide new hose on
Install fuel hose clamps
Open valve
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,418
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
some work according to my surveyor when I bought her
Surveyors will sometimes recommend or note items that may appear "under maintained" or suspicious. They are protecting their surveying reputation to "just make sure". Many times I saw my surveyor "note" items as serviceable or powered up. How did your surveyor comment on those items? Evidently the items were not a deal breaker.
__________
Also, @Randall Schmidt , you left out some major differences between DIY and the Quote.
1) Warranty on work.
2) Parts and specifications
3) Time estimates to do each job or hourly charge rate
4) Lump sum or can you "cherry pick" the cheap hard ones?
5) Which are safety or just "wear and tear"?
6) Was the quote from a "high demand" service person/business?
________
I bought a used boat too. It took me about a year to bring her to a reliable and dependable condition. Some work done by others, some work done DIY with help from SBO poster's guidance and suggestions.
My total repair, replace, upgrade, service and adjust $ outlay has averaged...

$93/foot per year.

My standards are to extend the life of my boat and to make sailing fun and with out debilitating or frustrating failures. The Admiral first thought she was a jinx because each of the 1st 8 outings had a "failure":banghead:. I noted to her that our last 12 outings had ZERO problems and fun. The presumed Jinx is now gone with the winds.:)
Jim...
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,418
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
SBO help!
@Maine Sail alone has saved me >$1000 on his valued advice alone. Other to numerous to note, have saved me countless hours of trouble shooting and frustration. I think we would all like your feedback on cost of each when you do them as compared to the quote.
Jim...

PS: Maine Sail you are underpaid here, but not undervalued.;)
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,075
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
The prices do seem crazy high when you look at them stand alone. You might be able to negotiate a better bulk rate if you intend to hire somebody to do the entire list. I agree with Joe's assessment that these individual jobs are really just tedious DIY projects. I'll also add that they are typically far more tedious than anybody ever estimates. I have to laugh about all the guys who say that these are 5 minute jobs (I'm being a little hyperbolic). Did everybody forget that our DIY estimates are almost always off by a factor of 4 or 5? Except for MS, who really does know how much time his jobs take, we typically take at least 4 hours to do a one hour job in our estimation (often, it is far longer).

I'm not going to forget how difficult it was just to remove the hoses from the Y-valve I had to replace this year. It was really frustrating because I had to squeeze into such a tight space that I could barely move my body or my hands. Aside from that, the upgraded y valve doesn't fit in the confined space where the old one was, so in order to really secure it, I would need to get in there and cut the hoses and adjust their positions. Do you know how hard it is to cut those hoses in a confined space? It would probably be easier to remove all the hoses ... and that is a job that most of us will tell you that they never want to have to do again!

All those tasks on your list are probably 3 times more difficult to actually accomplish than most of us in here will estimate. We're really great at minimizing the task in advance and maximizing our scorn towards the people that we would otherwise hire to perform the work. I don't know about the rest of us but my hourly billing rate is at least 4 times my actual salary. My company does that so that the owners can make a nice profit and live very comfortably (you know, like we all want to live). Well, don't expect the labor to be the same cost to you as the hourly wages of the fellow who is actually doing the work. The marina owners need enough revenue to stay in business (which means they will charge the amount of money to provide themselves with a nice, comfy life, otherwise they would do something else).

I'm basically with Jackdaw, either shop around, DIY, or get over it one way or the other. You may be able to just let some of these tasks slide if the boat isn't worth the expense.

I was writing as Jim was doing his posts, which were excellent and right on target.
 
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Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
I have done most of those projects as a DIY'er that he listed. Depending on access most can be done in one or two days with recreational breaks for liquid refreshment factored in. I agree with all that say half the fun is the satisfaction of finishing the job and proudly saying "I fixed that". It's part of owning an older sailboat. It keeps me off the streets and out of trouble with the Admiral. The prices do seem a bit high though. It took me three days of very hard work to finally get the waste tank and new hoses from the toilet to the tank and from the tank to the new pump out fitting and vent line (thank you Peggie...I changed to a 3/4" straight fitting.) I added a Y valve and new macerator pump and the satisfaction is immeasurable.
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
FYI...I purchased a new waste tank from Ronco Plastics in Tustin CA. They furnish all the plastic tanks for Catalina and they offered me a Catalina owner 50% discount. I live only 45 minutes away and was able to bring my old tank to them so they could weld the new fittings onto the new tank in the same locations. They also cut the access port and then placed a reinforcement plate for the tank sensor. I was in and out in under 30 minutes for under $200. The folks there were fantastic. You can order direct from their website. I can't recommend them enough.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
I have a pretty Draconian policy about boat ownership... this isn't really a popular opinion with many owners and especially with Marine Trades professionals. But anyway; I say if you can't build it/fix it yourself, you shouldn't own it. Period.

I understand building a new boat may not be beyond the capability of a lot of people, but they simply don't have the resources of work space, heavy equipment, and time. Notice I didn't say money... many people actually do have that if you don't count the labor you are saving. Regardless, I don't expect everyone who sails to have built their own boat, that's just unrealistic in the modern world. I do say that you should be able to fix just about anything... because face it, if you are offshore and something goes wrong there is no Chandlery or Yard to call on. Sailing and boat ownership isn't just a sport, its a very broad set of skills and disciplines, all of which we should endeavor to master.

I wish I could remember where I read this because I'd like to give credit for the quote, but I found this very profound; In regards to taking Shop class and other vocational programs out of schools today one person said "We are not teaching our kids today to MAKE things, we are teaching kids to BUY things".
 

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
"We are not teaching our kids today to MAKE things, we are teaching kids to BUY things" ....very true. In most cases but not all, DIY skills are usually taught by your Father and passed on. Same goes with the "buyers".....their lack of any hands on skills are also passed on. Very few "buyers" end up raising "makers".
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
I agree with that very profound statement. In defense of some fathers..my own included.. my father had a hard time putting a nail in a board or screwing in a light bulb.. my older brother can't change a flat tire ...he is the one that went to college. My younger brother is an accomplished auto body mechanic and has great mechanical and carpentry talents ..even if he doesn't know AC from DC. I turned out to be a good mechanic in my own right. But yes...kids today unless they have a father who likes to fix things...they have no clue which end of a screwdriver is the one they use. But there will always be gearheads and sailors and true to the word...if you own a boat you should know enough about the mechanical arts to fix it rather than call a towing service to bail you out every time.
 

MitchM

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Jan 20, 2005
1,020
Nauticat 321 pilothouse 32 Erie PA
those prices mean 'we do not want to work on your boat.' get a west marine catalog. call them in tech service and ask them what parts they have to do your jobs. they will make helpful suggestions and you'll learn a lot. and the charge to 'secure Y valve'? ROFL at the price ! yes, if you sail to canada, your y valve must be chained or secured into holding tank mode. we did so with 50 cents of zinc plated swing set chain and a $5.00 padlock.
 
Jan 7, 2011
4,758
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
I had a small repair business when I was in college. Got a call t fix someone's backed up sewer, late on a Saturday afternoon. Wife and I were heading out to an early dinner. I told her...your call..I can pass on this job, or I can do it and take you to a REALLY nice restaurant, just than we planned...

Sounds like the Marina doesn't really need the work.

Greg