macgregor 26s vs hunter 260

[hawk232]

I sorted through multiple pages of search results last night and never found a comparison. For the most part the H260 is out of my price range, though I have found one within it. I REALLY like the interior layout on the H260, enough that I would consider working on the budget.

That being said, which one is a better SAILboat? would the hunter sail comparably to a 26x or better, more like the s?

I am sure that in the end it wouldnt really matter, being that it will be my first boat, i would have nothing to compare it to!

 

[soling42]

....and the fires of the eternal debate are lit

 

[Sumner]

http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets/Offshore/PHRF/High+Low+Mean+PHRF+Handicaps.pdf

The following pages list low, high and average performance handicaps reported by USPHRF Fleets for over 4100 boat classes/types:​

Boat.........................Low...............High.............Average​

Hunter 260...............216...............224.................219​

Mac 26S...................210...............258.................222
Mac 26D...................210...............219.................213
Mac X.......................216...............273.................228​

They didn't list the M, but I know it is considerably higher than the X. Most X or M guys will say that the Mac Classics (S & D) will run away from them.​

Now the above are averages from all over the country and are compiled, as I understand it, from how boat owners of different experience and sail conditions, etc. do in local races. Due to that I would throw out some of the extreme ratings for the top numbers.​

I love our S for our needs, if the Hunter has the layout you like, meets your other expectations and you don't have a problem towing it I'd say go for it. Being a new sailor or if you aren't going to race you aren't going to really notice much speed difference in these boats.​

I think the main difference I've read about is with the higher free-board that the X, M and Hunter present to the wind that in some situations the high sides of the boat compared to say the S or D can cause some problems in the boat being blown around while docking and maybe in some sailing situations and they might not be as nimble, don't know the correct sailing terminology, or sail into light winds as well.​

One other thing to consider is that most people aren't going to hang an 8-9 hp outboard on the X, M or 260 so outboards are going to be a bigger investment.​

Look at them all before making a final decision. You are in an area where you can do that. We weren't, but lucked out anyway.

If Bob Hussey is back from Florida and sees this hopefully he will respond. He had a beautiful Mac Classic (S)....

http://picasaweb.google.com/husseybob/Watermark9126S#

and now owns a 260. He is honest and would give you good impressions of the pluses and minuses of both.​

c ya,​

Sum
​

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[hawk232]

I am, once again, going to let the newbie in my shine! What are the number in that chart telling me? What are they a measure of?

 

[sailingdog]

Those are performance rating handicapping numbers...generally the lower the number, the faster the boat generally sails.

I am, once again, going to let the newbie in my shine! What are the number in that chart telling me? What are they a measure of?

 

[Joe]

I am, once again, going to let the newbie in my shine! What are the number in that chart telling me? What are they a measure of?

They are speed ratings (like handicaps)... try googling PRHF for articles on the subject. In your case these numbers would mean very little, becaue they are for adjusting time in race between different boat makes . They really don't have anything thing to do with "how a sailboat sails" That's really up to the sailor, isn't it?

Some boats with much higher (slower) ratings are renowned for their sailing qualities.(Flicka)
And some boats with lower (faster) ratings are absolute crap...(oh, let's see... mac 26x maybe)

Anyway, If you're looking for the best sailing trailerable in that class, I'd opt for an older Cat 25.

 

[hawk232]

....and the fires of the eternal debate are lit

what are you talking about!?!? everbody knows that chevy is better than ford!!! hahaha


Yea i kind of figured when I posted the question that this was deffinatly one of those threads that is more useful as a poll of who owns what boat lol. I suppose I should have been a little more specific, so here is my first shot at that...

1. I woiuld like to hear from owners of the respective boats how long it takes to get them from on the trailer to ready to sail.

2. It would be nice to hear from someone who has sailed both, which one he/she felt was easier to sail and or the better sailing vessel.

 

[Sumner]

Actually living where you do I probably wouldn't buy a trailer-able boat, or at least one that is easy to trailer. Joe actually has the boat I'd look for if I lived where you do and I'd figure out a way to slip it.

For some good and pretty fast reading get the book "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere by John Vigor (Joe's boat is in it). These are boats that you can't take anywhere on a trailer, well a couple are, but ones that could take you about anywhere. You could sail from where you are across the gulf to the keys or other places and one might just take the place of the 30 footer you say you want to get. Some of the boats are expensive and some are actually in you budget (Joe's again) if you look for them.

Ok Joe now that I brown nosed you a little about your boat I'll have to disagree a little with what you said to a degree. I feel the PHRF numbers do give you some idea how a boat sails. They don't represent just a straight line speed sailing with the wind at your back, but are over courses where the boat does have to sail. Now maybe that is why the high and low numbers are so bad on the X. I can't tell you why for our S as it seems to sail very well into the wind or in about direction, but we are still so new we probably don't know a good boat from a bad one. (Hope you aren't going to cancel our trip now )

Here is another site that will help you compare some features of boats head to head....

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[dscribner]

I'm not sure if I agree with Sumner about not getting a trailerable boat. As nice as having a slip or mooring word be, it would also mean a chunk of change. Also, I can haul my Lance 40 miles a lot faster than I can sail her and enjoy different environs. Sailing is part of the experience but if you're looking for that moonlit night, soft music, and bottle of Syrah with that certain someone (a 26 footer would suggest you are) you might want to keep your options open. Oh, and there are a lot of woderful affordable wines coming out of South Africa these days.

 

[hawk232]

While i would LOVE to just jump right into a boat too big to trailer, i dont think it is wise for me. The cost of a slip significantly increases the cost of ownership of a sailboat. This would likely mean that I would have to wait several years to get one, and to quote someone from here "think of all that sailing time I would be missing". Besides, I am not sure that I am totally fond of having to drive an hour to get to my boat. I cannot leave anything I own stock (my tow vehicle has longtube headers, exhaust, ported throttlebody and more, my other boat has a built merc 200 on it, etc...) so I am sure that I will want to be modifying as well as just basic cleaning and detailing, and it would be nice to do it in my backyard!!

 

[Sumner]

Ok, bad idea, but just want to make sure you had thought it through. I won't try to sell you on it as we wouldn't give up our trailer sailor for a boat in a slip at one location at this time or probably any time in the future. We look at the boat as an incentive to traveling to different places that we haven't been to before.

Of course we aren't living where you are either, so we have to travel. The working at home on it is a big deal and there is much to be said for that. We have thought about possibly buying a larger boat and live aboard for a year and cruise and then sell it, but the one thing I don't like is that the boat would be a long ways from our home, so it would have to be almost ready to sail for a year without a lot of work to get it to that point.

The 50-60 minute drive wouldn't stop me as you could be there and out on the water in less time than a ramp 15 minutes from home.

So when you get some options narrowed down let us know what you are thinking. It is always fun spending someone else's money ,

Sum

 

[hawk232]

well sometime between yesterday and today I reached a point where I am about 95% sure that I will be going for the 26s. I like the fact that it is really light to tow, compared to what Im used to I probably wont even notice it! What convinced me was one of the links you sent me. I read about someone who hauled the boat to FL then sailed (island by island) to the bahamas. i set that as my GOAL. (we all have to have a goal to work towards dont we?) Please dont read that wrong... I am not planning on buying a boat tomorrow the setting sail for the bahamas the next day. I will wait a week or two!!

At any rate, the thought had never really entered my head to haul to other states and explore their waters, I always assumed I would be in lake ponchartrain (hence the reason that the weight didnt matter as it would only be towed an hour or so).

 

[Ray Bowles]

Hawk, I know you understand the mouse vs. rat.

I've owned the H26, sailed it hard and spent many, many nights on it. I've sailed the M26. The M26 is fast, that's it. The H26 is equally quick and enjoyable to spend many, many nights on. They both need about an hour to set up before launch and about 40 min to deconstruct.
Now, I also love fast and my 57 150 post is mouse powered and locally known as the rat killer.
The H26 is the rat killer.
Ray

 

[Mike B1026]

Mac26s vs Hunter 260

Couple of observations.

One day we were going out for a sail on our Mac26s when we ran into another couple at the marina, with a Hunter 260. After a short sail, with the wind increasing a bit, I took my wife back to the marina. She decided to to visit with the other woman, while her husband and I went back out into the bay for a short sail.

After sailing a bit, he tried a few different tweaks with the sails and shifting our weight forward in the cockpit etc. I got the impression he had been sailing for a while and knew a few things. When we got back, he told his wife how impressed he was with the Mac. He said it pointed better than his Hunter and seemed faster. He really enjoyed the outing and trying the Mac.

Another difference is the freeboard on the Hunter. It is more like the Mac26x/m. It does make them sail different with more to catch the wind. The tiller vs the wheel is another thing. I have only sailed with a wheel a couple of times. Maybe I could get used to it but I like the feel of a tiller. I like the feedback I feel. It seems to communicate the feel of the wind and waves better. It also takes up a lot less room in the cockpit.

Although I didn't go below his Hunter, it looked like it did have more headroom of course (like the Mac26x/m) because of the added freeboard.

Both seemed to be good boats. The Hunter is finished off a bit more (costs reflect that too) Either one would be a great sail.

 

[Joe]

Ok Joe now that I brown nosed you a little about your boat I'll have to disagree a little with what you said to a degree. I feel the PHRF numbers do give you some idea how a boat sails. They don't represent just a straight line speed sailing with the wind at your back, but are over courses where the boat does have to sail. Now maybe that is why the high and low numbers are so bad on the X. I can't tell you why for our S as it seems to sail very well into the wind or in about direction, but we are still so new we probably don't know a good boat from a bad one. (Hope you aren't going to cancel our trip now )

Heh, heh... I was hoping you'd notice that... now we have something to talk about, see you in a few weeks. I will say that I agree with you in that PHRF ratings give an indication of a boat's performance... after all.. the ratings are based on race results.

 

[Sumner]

Heh, heh... I was hoping you'd notice that... now we have something to talk about, see you in a few weeks. I will say that I agree with you in that PHRF ratings give an indication of a boat's performance... after all.. the ratings are based on race results.

In some cases I think comfort level in a boat is more important than the speed/sailing ability especially if one person has more fear with the heeling and such.

A person can go to the link......

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

...where you can compare one boat against another and draw some general conclussion on the comfort thing. For instance lets take your Cat 27 (I'm not sure of the model) and put it against our Mac S. They are only 1 foot apart lengthwise, but much further apart in other respects.

They give your hull speed at 6.2 and ours at 6.5 (I question that as the PHRF of your boat is about 20 seconds faster than the Mac in the other chart). So they are close to the same with yours probably actually a little faster.

A big difference is in displacement to water line length 293 to 98. The Cat is a much heavier boat at 6439 lbs. than the Mac at a 2860 lb. even with the water ballast in place. That pays off big in the comfort and safety in big water. Maybe adding all of the weight we have with our mods might pay off there .

It shows up in the capsize ratio where the Cat's is 1.87 to 2.24 for the Mac. I think they say for a boat to be an off-shore boat under 2.00 is preferable. So the Mac is or should be treated as a lake or coastal cruiser and your Cat is capable of being safer in worst conditions.

The weight difference (design difference) also shows up in the 'motion comfort rating' where the Cat's is 24.03 to 11.43 for the Mac with the higher number indicating a higher degree of comfort. This is my only concern with going out with you. Ruth might really like the difference in the feel of the larger boat even though it is only a foot longer :cry:. She already wants an Island Packet :cry:.

Here is also where the Mac X and Hunter 260 also shine some since they are heavier larger boats. On the motion comfort and capsize ratio the Mac comes in at 17.52 & 1.94 and the Hunter at 17.12 & 2.1. Pretty close to a dead heat.

I'll take our lighter more responsive Mac for the lakes and close in coastal, especially for shallow water areas like the Gulf and the Florida coasts and the Keys and your boat for deeper water and further off shore.

Just make sure you don't let Ruth like your boat too much ,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[Bob 04 H260]

I sailed a Mac 26S for 6 years, trailered it to the Florida Keys and the North Channel from my home in Ottawa, Canada. The boat was extensively modified from stock to help in performance, safety and comfort. It sailed very well I thought but for longer trips (more than a week) I could just not get used to being on my knees most of the time. I did not like a head without a sink and it was too small to use with the door closed.

Last spring I bought a Hunter 260, we trailered it down to Florida in mid-January and just put it back on the trailer yesterday. We hauled it about 1800 miles with a Chevy half ton PU, launched it near Stuart Fl and went down the ICW to the Keys. We did just under 300 nM on the Hunter on this trip. We found the Hunter very comfortable for two adults and a small dog. We could have stayed on it another 6 months I think.


I don't think there is a big difference in terms of sailing performance between the two boats if the Mac has had a few things done to it. Often an older Mac will need new sails if it is to sail well. Any S is getting a few years old by now, if it has the original sails better include new sails in your budget.


I like the feel of a tiller but I like the wheel steering much better when docking the boat, on the Hunter I have a linkage between the motor and rudder that makes all the difference in close quarters. Most of the time when I was docking the Mac I was turned around backwards dealing with the motor while the bow was docking 26 ft away behind me. Now I am standing up able to see well and have all the motor controls at the wheel. The Hunters were sold with both wheels and tillers.


The Hunter is much heavier and usually I can just put it in neutral about 2 slips away and use a touch of reverse as we come up to the dock. While the Hunter looks like it has much more windage I find it is not nearly as effected by the wind as my Mac was when docking. The Hunter has a very large rudder and will turn well with only a small amount of way on. I often had to dock the Mac in reverse as I could not turn the bow against the wind but could go anyplace in reverse, also much easier to see the dock from that position .


The Hunter is much heavier so does accelerate out of a tack the Mac did, but the Hunter is not as quick to heel either. The Hunter is heavier but carries more canvas with a small jib so I think it points better than my Mac did (but it had a 150 genoa on it).

I am still learning to sail the Hunter and am playing with tuning the rigging, at this point I have to reef earlier than I did on my Mac but that may change as time goes on.

The Mac is a lot of boat for the money and if you buy one I'm sure you will get more than your moneys worth. If you don't spend too much on mods you will be able to get your money back after a couple of years of sailing it, and could probably do the same with a Hunter.


The Hunter is so much more comfortable to live on. If you plan to spend any more than week on it at a time I would consider the H260 or an older H26.

Sumner made a comment above about the H260 being comparable to the Mac X or M with a large outboard motor . He is confusing the H260 with the new Hunter “Edge”. Like the X and M the Edge is a motorsailor not a sailboat. The H260 is a sailboat with a displacement hull like the Mac S.


Just my two cents, Bob

 

[Sumner]

Hi Bob, great assessment of the two boats and a fair one. Of course I knew that would be the case coming from you. Sorry about getting the Edge and the 260 confused, my bad .

It sounds like you had a great trip and put a lot of miles on the boat. Be careful going home,

Sum

 

[hawk232]

Bob, that is the exact kind of information I was looking for! Thanks!!

From the sound of it, for a first boat its hard to beat a Mac 26s (mainly due to cost) so I think that is the route I will take!

 

[Bob 04 H260]

you are welcome, I hope you enjoy your Mac as much as we did ours, there are a great group of Mac owners over on,
http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/macgregor/index.cgi
They are a the best place for good information on a classic and the best bunch of sailors you can find on the net.

I also recommend that you join,
http://www.trailersailors.org/

Sum, I have some Florida info I will put together for you and send along after I get back home and the boat is back in the water.

Bob